The decline of the community

[MilkieTea]

Honestly, I think this protect the children mindset is a dated concept (when it comes to teenagers). We should inform and educate but not police (within the context of the video game) we need to respect that people have differing risk tolerances thus leading them to try new things. We cannot control it or try to shelter people from it. That said if a child does go into an adult space within the game and is exposed to topics or subjects they are not able to handle we should not run to their aid, and shame the adults in question. One does not learn from that, they are not the victim if they willfully tried to gain access something deemed meant for adults.

Personally I think reporting someone for things they say is just dumb, worry about yourself and not others. Game already provides enough tools to block most chat one does not want to see. People are just far too soft nowadays and far too eager to cry foul.

That said section 3.3 you are still my lord and savior! :P

See, this take, is a lot better than your other take.

[Awha]

See, this take, is a lot better than your other take.

It is the same take just worded differently, I still stand by my other post just came off as more abrasive then it needed to be. I still think children that willfully try to get adults punished for actions out of spite should face harsher punishments then what they get now.

Well the "Think of the children" mindset in itself encompasses bringing awareness, informing, and educating people on the subject matter, and more often than not those who are more mature since it has a lot of sanction accompanying in it if you're even accused of it, so yeah it is a hardly dated concept as much as you'd like to believe. Sure, actively policing it shouldn't be a thing, that much I'll at least agree on. A child will only ever wander in a mature or ERP-based setting if they're publicly advertised which shouldn't even happen in the first place.

No, it's actually a disservice to the person committing the infraction, and the community at large. If you feel something is inappropriate and doesn't abide by the terms then you report it. It allows for the person being reported to reflect on their behaviour and then amend it going forward. If nobody makes them aware of it so it can be addressed then they're only going to commit the same offense with other people, which is then a disservice to them as well.

See that would work if you were told what you did wrong in this game. You are not so reporting people in this game is largely rooted in spite. It is dated as much as people like to think that children are dumb, ignorant to the world around them they are far more advance then many give them credit for. TBH I would say more adults need protecting from children. Kids in my school use to play games to see how many teachers they could get fried or force to quit before the year was out. WE knew what we could get away with, and how to spin the situation to turn us into the victims. Children are nasty little buggers.

I just think as we get older people tend to forget how resourceful or lack of remorse we had as a child which allows us to paint them as an innocent child. I am just recently finishing uni, so it is still fresh in my mind I was also one of those little shits that did not give a shit, and played the I did not know card fairly often to great success.

As I said we can educate and inform, but after that it is on little timmy.

[Kaurhz]

It is the same take just worded differently, I still stand by my other post just came off as more abrasive then it needed to be. I still think children that willfully try to get adults punished for actions out of spite should face harsher punishments then what they get now.



See that would work if you were told what you did wrong in this game. You are not so reporting people in this game is largely rooted in spite.

Except you can request this data by doing a data subject access request, this much is specified within their Privacy Policy if you look hard enough. They will supply you with the direct log which resulted in your warning/suspension. In fact, the only thing I disagree with in terms of handling here is that upon being reported the GMs should supply you with the email to do such and explain the process.

Reporting people out of spite isn't something I agree with, no, obviously. But if I feel someone has deliberately gone out of their way to not follow the terms of service, be it slurs, insults, and other things of a similar nature which may encompass or suffice for harassment then I'm going to report you, simple as. It prevents you from doing that exact same behavior with someone else.

If I had to resort to the blocklist like you're suggesting for potential infractions then my blacklist would cease to have space on it. Call it being soft, foul, or whatever. People should be held accountable for their actions. I can also at the very least say people crying profanity filter when they got a suspension or a warning more than likely are only telling part of the story in order to justify their own actions.

[Awha]

Except you can request this data by doing a data subject access request, this much is specified within their Privacy Policy if you look hard enough. They will supply you with the direct log which resulted in your warning/suspension. In fact, the only thing I disagree with in terms of handling here is that upon being reported the GMs should supply you with the email to do such and explain the process.

Reporting people out of spite isn't something I agree with, no, obviously. But if I feel someone has deliberately gone out of their way to not follow the terms of service, be it slurs, insults, and other things of a similar nature which may encompass or suffice for harassment then I'm going to report you, simple as. It prevents you from doing that exact same behavior with someone else.

If I had to resort to the blocklist like you're suggesting for potential infractions then my blacklist would cease to have space on it. Call it being soft, foul, or whatever. People should be held accountable for their actions. I can also at the very least say people crying profanity filter when they got a suspension or a warning more than likely are only telling part of the story in order to justify their own actions.

I will take your word that you can request such information, though why a GM just does not tell you on the spot is beyond me. Though some do. That being said most do not read the ToS, let alone Privacy Policy. Though since I have not read it, I have a strong suspicion that it does not carry over 100% to in-game interactions and data.

In the end you are free to report whoever you want for whatever you want that is fine. I have been reported and I own up my strikes. That being said I just have a personal issue with how vague the ToS is, and how the game offers tools to avoid certain things yet one can still be reported despite those tools in place. Though you probably are largely right that more to the story, when I was reported for my language the person in question did ask me to stop in party chat but I just ignored them and moved, still dropped the f bomb every so often it was not aimed towards anyone. Though I most likely got a strike due to the fact they asked me to stop and I did not.

Still personally that was a petty reason to report someone cause if they just add their filter on all they would see is ???? no harm no foul. Though they are free to report cause I did break the ToS no matter how silly said ToS can be. Though I do think being held accountable is a two way street, people should also be accountable for their own safety and sanity. If a game provides you tools to avoid certain things you may not want to see then they should be using said feature end of story, and if they were using said feature it should not matter if people are cursing. Now if people try to bypass the filter that is a different story.

Personally I do think it is soft, across every MMO I have played I have had to blacklist one person and that was a guild mats GF that was annoying in raids and I just wanted to pretend they did not exist.

[Kaurhz]

Snip.

Ironically enough, they themselves probably aren't aware, as neither are many people in the community It should at the very least be within their guideline to supply such information to people when they're sanctioned.. I can partially understand why they themselves don't directly supplement the logs- Certain information needs to be redacted as they're potentially exchanging information pertaining to another character with you that they otherwise probably shouldn't. People have done this before and had the respective logs sent to them- It's actually on Reddit.

I get your grievance at least, but in the same vein, the implementation of a filter should not preclude one from being reported and sanctioned accordingly. I hate to be hubristic about it, but if I've learned anything through my life it is that people will typically only tell part of the story, and the part of the story that paints them as the victim. I don't agree that the use of a single non-derogatory profanity should be enough to warrant a sanction, or even being reported for that matter, but I do believe excessive use of profanities should warrant it. But you yourself have exemplified this- You were asked to stop and potentially politely too, yet you didn't oblige and still went on the crusade it would seem.

Everyone is held accountable for their actions to varying degrees- For example; It just happens that someone stepping into a mature environment whilst not of appropriate age has much less of a sanction than if someone within the environment were to do inappropriate things with said person. But then I still hold the opinion of- Just don't publicly advertise mature scenes to a potentially non-mature audience. You save those with the overabundance of curiosity from putting themselves in harm's way- Just as you save people in the environment from doing something they otherwise absolutely wouldn't. A profanity filter is just an additional tool so that you don't have to expose yourself to profanities. It doesn't mean you shouldn't be reported for it by someone else though, as petty as it might be. But then we get into the scope of differentiating profanities from slurs, and insults, and arguably many people that get reported for it, arguably probably fall into slurs and insults more than pofanities.

[MilkieTea]

It is the same take just worded differently, I still stand by my other post just came off as more abrasive then it needed to be. I still think children that willfully try to get adults punished for actions out of spite should face harsher punishments then what they get now.

Your other take was that children should face the same punishments as adults. This take isn't just worded differently, it's an entirely different take: that we should inform and educate.

[Awha]

Your other take was that children should face the same punishments as adults. This take isn't just worded differently, it's an entirely different take: that we should inform and educate.

By inform and educate I mean before they do the action before doing things meant for adults then try to cry foul on the adults despite knowing it was not meant for children and they still do said action at that point then little timmy should face the same punishment as an adult. Cause screw this better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission mindset.

I think having a focus on educating after the fact is kinda backwards, the education should front loaded, and if the action is committed after the point it is okay to inform and educate again, but they should face the same punishment as an adult for the action they committed.

[Vahlnir]

By inform and educate I mean before they do the action before doing things meant for adults then try to cry foul on the adults despite knowing it was not meant for children and they still do said action at that point then little timmy should face the same punishment as an adult. Cause screw this better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission mindset.

Kids, by nature, do not always use good judgement, even when they know what they are doing is wrong. I would know. I was one! Adults are expected to be better than that and act their age (though some never outgrow such immaturity), as well as adhere to various societal standards and laws to a much higher degree. So yeah, I'd say different punishments are largely warranted. Not saying that kids should be let off the hook for their behavior, but it comes down to what I said already. Things should be handled differently depending on the situation.

[Awha]

Kids, by nature, do not always use good judgement, even when they know what they are doing is wrong. I would know. I was one! Adults are expected to be better than that and act their age (though some never outgrow such immaturity), as well as adhere to various societal standards and laws to a much higher degree. So yeah, I'd say different punishments are largely warranted. Not saying that kids should be let off the hook for their behavior, but it comes down to what I said already. Things should be handled differently depending on the situation.

Yeah overall I am not a huge fan of varying degrees of punishment for many things. I think across the board we should have harsher punishments. Personally from experience when I did messed up shit as a kid, I cannot say it was solely based around poor judgment per-se and more so I knew I had a decent chance of getting away with it with either a slap on the wrist or no punishment at all. I just had to spin the situation my favor. Granted, I do come from a position of privilege in this regard that many are not afforded.

Sure my judgment was poor in the sense that I did said action, but that part that titled the scales on my head from not doing into doing said action was the protections provided to me being a child at the time. I also do not think this way of thinking is all that uncommon as people may like to think it is.

Ironically enough, they themselves probably aren't aware, as neither are many people in the community It should at the very least be within their guideline to supply such information to people when they're sanctioned.. I can partially understand why they themselves don't directly supplement the logs- Certain information needs to be redacted as they're potentially exchanging information pertaining to another character with you that they otherwise probably shouldn't. People have done this before and had the respective logs sent to them- It's actually on Reddit.

I get your grievance at least, but in the same vein, the implementation of a filter should not preclude one from being reported and sanctioned accordingly. I hate to be hubristic about it, but if I've learned anything through my life it is that people will typically only tell part of the story, and the part of the story that paints them as the victim. I don't agree that the use of a single non-derogatory profanity should be enough to warrant a sanction, or even being reported for that matter, but I do believe excessive use of profanities should warrant it. But you yourself have exemplified this- You were asked to stop and potentially politely too, yet you didn't oblige and still went on the crusade it would seem.

Everyone is held accountable for their actions to varying degrees- For example; It just happens that someone stepping into a mature environment whilst not of appropriate age has much less of a sanction than if someone within the environment were to do inappropriate things with said person. But then I still hold the opinion of- Just don't publicly advertise mature scenes to a potentially non-mature audience. You save those with the overabundance of curiosity from putting themselves in harm's way- Just as you save people in the environment from doing something they otherwise absolutely wouldn't. A profanity filter is just an additional tool so that you don't have to expose yourself to profanities. It doesn't mean you shouldn't be reported for it by someone else though, as petty as it might be. But then we get into the scope of differentiating profanities from slurs, and insults, and arguably many people that get reported for it, arguably probably fall into slurs and insults more than pofanities.

I would not say it was a crusade, in game I tend to just drop F-bombs often generally they are not aimed towards anyone and if they are it is mainly myself. If I screw up I say F*** sorry my bad, or eat an AoE I say F***!!! generally harmful things of that nature. At the time I felt no need to adhere to their request cause my language was not being aimed towards anyone, even someone in the group asked why did they turn the filter off if they did not want to see curse words.

What you saying regarding the profanity or even adverts would make sense if largely these actions were opt in instead of out. I could be wrong but I do believe the filter is opt-out so someone has to purposefully turn it off, which should be seen as a form of consent personally imo. Same with venturing into those 18+ RP venues, normally one has to willfully go into said venue and I get things are murky cause one can generally lie about their age etc . . . and within current system the onus is on one running the venue. Just in my view that is messed up someone can get in trouble for something they willfully sought out. Sure it could be due to a lack of judgment, but in the end it was still a choice the person had to make. We should respect the choices people make, and also hold them accountable for their actions it is a two way street.

[MilkieTea]

Kids, by nature, do not always use good judgement, even when they know what they are doing is wrong. I would know. I was one! Adults are expected to be better than that and act their age (though some never outgrow such immaturity), as well as adhere to various societal standards and laws to a much higher degree. So yeah, I'd say different punishments are largely warranted. Not saying that kids should be let off the hook for their behavior, but it comes down to what I said already. Things should be handled differently depending on the situation.

This 100%! children inherently just, lack the proper functions to analyze their actions and how they affect others - punishment should mirror that. Which is why education after the fact *and* before the fact is necessary. You teach timmy not to steal a candy bar, and if he does do it (because he thinks he can get away with it) you put timmy on timeout and then teach him again. Now he knows two things - one, he can't get away with it and two, that it was wrong to try. You don't put timmy in prison and tack a $5000 fine to his head.