The trust system is great, I hope it gets expanded

[SaberMaxwell]

Sounds like this isn't a request in good faith, but rather, a clumsy attempt to stick it to those darned elitist raiders. Or maybe the agenda is a bit more underhanded than that, op tends to look down on group challenges in favor of solo ones, there's a definite tone of smug superiority in some of his posts about how solo challenges are more legitimate. Perhaps he doth protest too much about those dirty elitists?

Either way this popcorn tastes great.

[Darkmoonrise]

I know you're a troll so I'm not gonna entertain everything but yes

You have a strong mind, I cannot prevent myself enjoying such easy amusement.

but elitists love to hype up high end content as some kind of unimaginably hard challenge in order to indirectly boost their self worth

the high end content who is known about high difficulty [/U]

You're the very person saying that.

the delusion that they are elite for doing high end group content really has gotten over some people’s heads even when they really are not that great

You're the one saying that, nobody said that only elite can down hard content.

Again though you have failed to point out how OTHER PEOPLE'S failures which you have no control over have anything to do with YOUR INDIVIDUAL PERFORMANCE, which is what you are in control of and is what matters if you want to tell yourself you beat X content.

This is not true. You are free to choose your "other people". It's called a static and you are free to search for the one which fits your needs, what ever they are. You not putting the effort do not mean it's not a thing.

I remind you, this is a video game, you didnt achieve anything great

I don't understand why you keep beliving this is an argument. Performing in a hobby is a thing. Because you do not like it does not mean that other do not like it.


You know, everyone of your statement boils down to the exact same orginial problem : You cannot find a group which fits you. And with what I see here, the problem isn't you not standing other but other not standing you. Maybe because of your singular personality or because of

In case you haven’t realized you can easily get carried by 7 players

or maybe something else.

And, because of this, you want to be able to clear everything solo. This is not a solution, this is a workaround. You can hide behind the "elitist" ennemy you made up but this won't change the realty of thing.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Sounds like this isn't a request in good faith, but rather, a clumsy attempt to stick it to those darned elitist raiders. Or maybe the agenda is a bit more underhanded than that, op tends to look down on group challenges in favor of solo ones, there's a definite tone of smug superiority in some of his posts about how solo challenges are more legitimate. Perhaps he doth protest too much about those dirty elitists?

Either way this popcorn tastes great.

To be frank, I do think it would be nice if SE can add trust system to beyond what we have right now, just not into the current expansion’s higher end duties & ultimates (past expansions are fine imho). Even if they do, I’d be inclined to agree only if they are used to practice mechanics. Leave most—if not, all of the rewards from regular run in the regular runs.

Rewards for clearing with trust..? Well, anything that is purely cosmetic by nature would probably suffice like mounts, orchestrion roll, furniture, glamour piece, etc. You name it! Top tier gear? Leave them alone in regular runs.

[Ralph2449]

You're the one saying that, nobody said that only elite can down hard content.

Well duh, if unhealthy people could admit their problems instead of using excuses and vague statements like "Oh i am just having fun, no need to analyze anything please, no need to go indepth about it, its just vague fun, doesnt matter if it is wrong, undeserving or even unjust, just let me have """"fun"""""

This is not true. You are free to choose your "other people".It's called a static

Ah yes the "just make a group yo", because it is incredibly easy and fun to keep dealing with people until you find the right ones or jumping from FC to FC, why do you think the vast number of people prefer pugs? Because they want the rewards yet they dont want to bother with guilds, so adding a solo option would be the next step but that will be a nightmare for elitists since their ego depends on the delusion that they achieved something l33t epic by beating high end content and having those dirty casual solo players achieve the same will directly hurt the only thing their self worth depends on.

And with what I see here, the problem isn't you not standing other but other not standing you. Maybe because of your singular personality
And, because of this, you want to be able to clear everything solo

And here we see your complete inability to understand that not everyone is so self centered to only care about things that directly affect them, so no I never had an issue finding a guild when I wanted to do high end group content, and I ll be doing the same here, but that is irrelevant, because I can do that doesnt mean everyone will do and more importantly I care a lot more with breaking the delusion that elitists have created by inflating high end group content as some kind of ultra l33t ebin achievement (same thing has been done to WoW, yet mythic is literally nothing more than slightly harder heroic with an extra mechanic or two yet elitists have spread this false myth that it is ultra hard to boost their self esteem) which harms not only the community by perpetuating the mythic, it makes elitists even more delusional and obnoxious which is something kinda bad.

You can hide behind the "elitist" ennemy you made up but this won't change the realty of thing.

Elitist tryhards are a very well known and documented problems in many games so I am afraid I wouldnt need to make it up, thankfully this game is less plagued by them compared to others and that is because many people have the sense to oppose it when they see it attempt to spread.

[Darkmoonrise]

A response, thank you!

people could admit their problems instead of using excuses and vague statements like "Oh i am just having fun, no need to analyze anything please, no need to go indepth about it, its just vague fun, doesnt matter if it is wrong, undeserving or even unjust, just let me have """"fun"""""
This confuse me a lot because this is the very argument people you defend use (maybe not in this very thread). I'll need more explanation here. And before asking people to admit their problems, you should begin by yourself.

why do you think the vast number of people prefer pugs
And you base this claim on...? Because, from my point of view, people prefer static.

be a nightmare for elitists since their ego depends on the delusion that they achieved something l33t epic by beating high end content and having those dirty casual solo players achieve the same will directly hurt the only thing their self worth depends on.
This is a well-known none-argument called the straw man argument (you'll find more information here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man). You're the one putting stereotype on people and then harassing them based on those.

And here we see your complete inability [...] and obnoxious which is something kinda bad.
Don't try to make you look like the white knight defending the defenceless, because you're doing them more arm with this attitude than by just saying nothing. You're the one cleaving the community and then using this cleave to start a war, thus negatively affecting everyone.

Elitist tryhards are a very well known and documented problems in many games
At least we agree on that point. But, on the other end of the spectrum, there are people like you who try to justify the absolute opposite. Which is as bad as the original problem. Maybe showing you what you look like will help you understand the reaction/response you get. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh2d...vaLaDirtLeague

To conclude my response I would say: Yes toxic elitist player actively harassing underperforming player do exist but they are a minority. Responding to them as you do, is, in my opinion the worst possible reaction. Even making it worst by polarizing people even more. I don't know if you really mean everything you write here and there or you just cornered yourself in a bad position and, for the sake of pride, you polarized yourself to become the very thing you tried to fight. But as you said, it's ok to admit its failure.

And to go a little back on topic, people await fairness. On one side you have: (1) Find a group (pf, static or whatever). (2) Learn the fight. (3) find a strategy to beat it (often comes from guide now) (4) 8 people do the fight correctly. And on the other side, you have (1) learn the fight. (2) 1 person do the fight correctly. As you can see, the first option is more demanding than the other, thus leading to less reward. And as I already said, no reward in this case, in my point of view.

[snipski]

This is one of the reasons why MMOS is a dying breed everything is made for casual and solo play nowadays there is just no reason to be social in the game anymore and this is pretty sad if you ask me.

[Ralph2449]

This confuse me a lot because this is the very argument people you defend use (maybe not in this very thread). I'll need more explanation here.

Simple, at some point intelligent people realize that words are meaningless because people lie to themselves often, so only their actions and consequences of their proposals actually matters, a very clear example would be a person playing a broken class that can 2 shot people in pvp, that person will most likely having a ton of fun but that feeling is undeserved since he is merely abusing something broken, unjust because other people suffer by getting 2 shotted unfairly and delusional because these people slowly starts believing they are unironically deserving of their victories and starts thinking they are elite.

Meanwhile a person having fun without being optimal and possibly ignorant of X thing from their job hurts nobody, and no I dont include "OMG wiping or spending more time than an efficient roflstomp to be the worst thing ever even though tryhards keep acting like that.

Don't try to make you look like the white knight defending the defenseless, because you're doing them more arm with this attitude than by just saying nothing. You're the one cleaving the community and then using this cleave to start a war, thus negatively affecting everyone.

Fair point, my methods are definitely not passive but that is because I cant be bothered anymore so directly pointing out the core of the problem and unhealthiness of certain individuals for others to see is how I work, I dont have an issue if I am personally viewed negatively, the goal is to remind elitist tryhards that this aint their playground and their attempts to influence the community wont succeed.

Speaking out is how you stop certain things from taking root, being silent might as well lead to approval.

This is a well-known none-argument called the straw man argument

Pointing out how elitists are foaming in the mouth at the very idea that their prestigious l33t overinflated high end content could be beaten by one of those casual non hardcore non elite solo players is my point, no healthy individual gets mad and annoyed by accessibility, in WoW i would advocate for every single person to have a path to mythic ilvl, slower for easier content of course but even the idea that the average casual would have access to their prestige l33t gear was enough to make elitist foam.

Thus this is because their ego depends on said video game "prestige" and making that accessible hurts their self worth which is what explains the extreme reaction to any form of accessibility suggestion.

And you base this claim on...? Because, from my point of view, people prefer static.

Majority of players in any mmorpg are casual solo players who pug content, I have little interest what tryhards prefer since they are the minority in any game.

fairness. On one side you have: (1) Find a group (pf, static or whatever). (2) Learn the fight. (3) find a strategy to beat it (often comes from guide now) (4) 8 people do the fight correctly. And on the other side, you have (1) learn the fight. (2) 1 person do the fight correctly. As you can see, the first option is more demanding than the other, thus leading to less reward.

Well here's the problem, elitist tryhards take pride in beating high end group content and delude themselves they are great, skilled and elite players because they beat the encounter, are you suggesting they get that delusion because they dealt with the bothersome social barrier of finding the group and because 7 other people whose performance is completely out of your control didnt fail? Or is it the most likely case that they have deluded themselves that they are elite because they played well themselves hence individual performance.

Elitists dont praise their ability to deal with social barriers, they praise their """skill""" aka what controls individual performance and that is the same both in solo trust and in group.

Again the only thing truly harder in that comparison is finding other people, which honestly has always been the main challenge in any high end content in any mmorpg, so unless I start seeing tryhard elitists start saying how skilled they are at finding people and being social rather than their individual ingame performance I will focus on individual performance unless you want to argue that people who take pride in clearing high end content take pride in "being social" and "things completely outside their control aka 7 other ppl not failing"

[Mahoukenshi]

This is one of the reasons why MMOS is a dying breed everything is made for casual and solo play nowadays there is just no reason to be social in the game anymore and this is pretty sad if you ask me.

Take from it what you want, but if an MMO needs exclusively group content for other players to be social, then there is a different underlying issue. Sure, grouping up out of necessity can of course lead to more social activities, but being social, bonding with others and so on should usually be an intrinsic motivation and promote further intrinsic and extrinsic get-together concepts (i. e. grouping up, joining/creating a FC, statics to do harder content for the challenge and/or loot). If the story were doable purely solo/with NPCs or not, should in an ideal case bear no difference.

[SaberMaxwell]

To be frank, I do think it would be nice if SE can add trust system to beyond what we have right now, just not into the current expansion’s higher end duties & ultimates (past expansions are fine imho). Even if they do, I’d be inclined to agree only if they are used to practice mechanics. Leave most—if not, all of the rewards from regular run in the regular runs.

Rewards for clearing with trust..? Well, anything that is purely cosmetic by nature would probably suffice like mounts, orchestrion roll, furniture, glamour piece, etc. You name it! Top tier gear? Leave them alone in regular runs.

I agree, personally. Trusts provide a great low-stakes environment for a player to play around with a job they're unfamiliar with, and definitely help quash the narrative dissonance of "why is WoL the only one doing anything?" I wouldn't mind seeing them expanded some at all. As far as whether they should give any rewards at all... hm, that's a good question. Personally I lean 'no,' though if they did add rewards I would say perhaps make them specific to the trusts themselves. Clear e9s with your trust and Thancred gets a new piece of gear would be a neat way to go about it maybe.

As it stands, trusts do have certain concessions that can make doing trust extremes or savage actually quite difficult: namely, "if you die, the run wipes automatically." Which makes sense; if you're going alone, you're accepting 100% of the responsibility. You also wouldn't be able to dictate strategies to the trust group like you could with a static; whatever the trust does is what you have to follow, because they won't be able to adjust around you. With that said, the trusts having a written-out strat will affect the community, so perhaps delay the ability to run trusts in savage until after savage's loot has been unlocked to prevent that...or delay / mitigate it.

[Daibunnie]

casuals/solo players must be terribad, incompetent, lazy, cant improve, need handholding, handicap features

This guy is so toxic. First he hating on the hardcore players, now insulting the casuals/solo players.

Sadly for you, some of us are not so short sighted to only care about what directly affects us, injustice, delusions, elitism and many more things that are bad are things that I will always oppose.

He also mad that he can't cheese optional full party content that is suppose to be a challenge. Making claims like "hur dur solo challenge" while ignoring the several solo challenges the game already provides.