Death unto Dawn page up

[Iscah]

On a completely different perspective, I don't see any need to remove the current cast or "make way for new characters" at all.

If it actively suits the narrative for someone to leave or die, that's fine. But they don't need to move on just because they are long-term cast members - quite the opposite. They keep a consistent picture of "our character and their group of friends" who have been there since the beginning of our journey.

We might strike out on our own in 6.1, but I don't want it to be because everyone else was incapacitated in our final battle. That's unnecessary and cruel after they've come so far with us.

[Kesey]

But then where’s the threat? Where’s the suspense of what’s happening to them if we know they’re going to be okay. A story shouldn’t be one-sided, especially because in the case of ShB, in order to keep a certain character alive, they had to rely on half-assed plot armor which completely contradicted the story elements. If it’s something that makes them contradict their own points they wrote in the story, then that should be dealt with. Look at HW. The deaths were impactful to many but it wasn’t forced or anything like that. There were actually consequences for the protags that shaped them. ShB has none of that and it’s no wonder ShB also has less overall character development barring a couple of the scions (Thancred and Alphinaud most notably).

Is the end of days and all existence not enough of a threat? Failure on the part of the heroes is end of all life...

[Kesey]

On a completely different perspective, I don't see any need to remove the current cast or "make way for new characters" at all.

If it actively suits the narrative for someone to leave or die, that's fine. But they don't need to move on just because they are long-term cast members - quite the opposite. They keep a consistent picture of "our character and their group of friends" who have been there since the beginning of our journey.

We might strike out on our own in 6.1, but I don't want it to be because everyone else was incapacitated in our final battle. That's unnecessary and cruel after they've come so far with us.

I agree. But I think we can easily see the older members of the scions attempting retirement, or at least play at it long enough for some other big threat to surface.

I expect Y'shotla's retirement has already been seeded when she had her goodbye moment with Runar on the First and she promised to come back when she is needed. She could be narratively trying to find her way back until it is necessary to shard hop again, taking her off the roster for a period of time while she continues her "studies."

[KizuyaKatogami]

Is the end of days and all existence not enough of a threat? Failure on the part of the heroes is end of all life...

Um...no it’s not a threat when we already know everything is going to be okay at the end. They kind of spoiled that with the whole Ishgard housing will be in 6.1 lol. It doesn’t have to be failure of the heroes but again, they can have consequences. Whether that’s someone dying or not, something needs to happen considering it’s literally the final expansion for this story arc. It’s like the “threat” that was supposed to be the invading wol’s on 5.3, except wow it turns out, they’re not actually attacking townsfolk or anything, and for some reason random people can take them on. There’s no sense of threat anymore. Everything is just easily solved or made to be convenient for the protagonists and it’s just dull.

[KizuyaKatogami]

The characters don't have to die. Death is one predictable avenue. There are plenty of ways to write characters off without it.

Example, look at Thancred. He lost his aether controlling abilities. Now what happens if he loses a leg or ends up badly hurt in a fight that leaves him near crippled and almost dead? He's effectively written out of the story. He can no longer spy for us, he can no longer fight by our side. His entire role as a Scion is no longer possible, and he has to leave the main story and be replaced by another.

Another example, Y'shtola and Urianger. They're our resident expert mages and lore experts. Imagine if you will that the actions occurring in EW effect the First and we need somebody there who can hold the aether together, and whichever goes would be able to make the trip body and all, but wouldn't return? One of them would be removed from the main squad permanently without death.

We don't need there to be death to remove characters, we have other avenues to create believable circumstances that rob us of our team members permanently and make it threatening. If any Scion were to be removed from the equation permanently in any of these circumstances, we've felt the threat, they're not coming back, they can't help us anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if the last dungeon of EW has only the Trusts of G'raha, Alphinaud, Alisaie, and Estinien left due to the other members getting permanently removed due to circumstances, with G'raha being permanently removed after the final dungeon is complete. Leaving us with the only members able to continue into 6.1 being Alphinaud and Alisaie, and maybe Estinien if he officially joins the Scions.

Tbf, Thancred iirc hasn’t had his aether controlled abilities since HW, but he’s still been able to spy and do his job. We see that in SB so idk how he’s written out of the story. Also just a side note but i really really really hope they wouldn’t leave us with Alisaie,Alphy, and Graha. That’s like....nightmare fuel right there lmao.

[KizuyaKatogami]

Imo, that's not the problem of characters dying or surviving, but rather the age old problem of ever stronger escalating threats (i. e. threats with a stronger and stronger "power level"). We'll have been squashing world-ending foes left and right, esp. at the end of EW. So the EW post-game needs to make a new start with new dangers that are somehow equally (or more) threatening than a re-enactment of the literal Final Days if the plot isn't depowering us somehow. Technically, every regular dungeon visit afterwards shouldn't be threatening at all (ignoring from a player pov of "everything is faceroll-easy lolz"), unless the Final Days will uncover some age-old sealed dungeons with somehow more threatening stuff in it.

The problem is, we’ve already faced beyond powerful foes already (Hades and Elidibus), but they took away the tension and threat from both of those fights with the plot armor and plot convenience they instilled into it. That’s the problem, they introduce these powerful foes that are way beyond our power level, but instead of writing so that they have actual weight in their power and perform actions that greatly affect the protagonist side, they write it so everything goes well for the protags even if it means creating plot holes.

[KizuyaKatogami]

On a completely different perspective, I don't see any need to remove the current cast or "make way for new characters" at all.

If it actively suits the narrative for someone to leave or die, that's fine. But they don't need to move on just because they are long-term cast members - quite the opposite. They keep a consistent picture of "our character and their group of friends" who have been there since the beginning of our journey.

We might strike out on our own in 6.1, but I don't want it to be because everyone else was incapacitated in our final battle. That's unnecessary and cruel after they've come so far with us.

I don’t really see how it’s unnecessary or cruel. If the final battles’ stakes are that high that it results in that, that isn’t unnecessary. That’s actually having the threat have weight and consequences which i know, a lot of people are unfamiliar with after ShB. Personally i really would like to see a new cast of characters, no matter if that means the old ones dying off or what. They can only write so much for the current scions, that was made prevalent in ShB and after EW i don’t see how they could continue making more for them.

[Rosenstrauch]

Tbf, Thancred iirc hasn’t had his aether controlled abilities since HW, but he’s still been able to spy and do his job. We see that in SB so idk how he’s written out of the story.

I mean, the result of him still doing his job is that he spends long sections of Stormblood's story offscreen because he can't teleport like everyone else does. That's a pretty big consequence when compared to Y'shtola's blindness. All that has meant is that she has to burn aether to see, which is absolutely not going to cost her anything during the scope of FFXIV's story.

There's also Minfilia, who gave up her body and soul to Hydaelyn. And while the writers took great pains to distance everything Minfilia-related from the revelation that Hydaelyn is a primal, it's not hard to believe that she was tempered all the way up to her "suicide via passing the torch" moment. And the result of that whole mess is that the writers barely used her at all, and even took steps to write their way out of using her (100 years have passed since the Flood of Light, reincarnations in name only, the aforementioned passing of the torch story focusing entirely on the character receiving the torch, etc...).

I don't think I'll ever not be bitter about that, lol. I suppose it's a bit hypocritical of me to want them to hit the undo button on that one—I'm over here advocating that they hit the redo button on the Exarch's death, after all.

[Turethir]

I'd like to see the Scions survive 6.0, but then go their separate ways. They can be brought back into the story if needed at times (sort of like Cid and Nero) but they wouldn't be our adventuring party anymore.

And I say this as someone whose favourite character is a Scion. I also agree that there's probably not much they can do with them post-EW, but I'd like to see them get nice retirements and be happy.

[Ceridwenae]

I don't see an issue with G'raha because my character seems to reciprocate the relationship. It's not just one-way him showering us with compliments while we remain disinterested.

Haurchefant, on the other hand, is downright creepy to us a few times -

For the longest time I thought Haurchefant was a serial killer. He creeped me out no end, reminded me of real life guys who have had me deeply unsettled in the past and I really wanted to keep far, far away from him. He became less creepy over time to the point I was not happy when he died, but I have no doubt in another life his tale was quite a nefarious one.

Conversely, I've never thought G'raha was a serial killer and my daughter adores him so he has a pass for now. If he ever upsets her, however, I'm coming for him.



As for Death unto Dawn, part of my brain wants us, the WoL/D, to die. Sort of. But I suspect it's likely more lateral than literal and I'm not currently invested one way or another.