Death unto Dawn page up

[Theodric]

The crystal memory transferrence had already been established prior, it didn't come out of nowhere. That's not plot armor.

I'd argue that it is when it's consistently made out to be a big, risky affair stacked up on top of other big, risky affairs but none of the established limitations ever come into play on any meaningful level.

Personally I don't care for most of the characters that exist to fawn over the Warrior of Light. At the very least, I'd like to see G'raha injured and quietly retired. Much like Zenos, he's overstayed his welcome for me.

I have a feeling that's a significant amount of bias involved, at any rate. Very few people want their favourite characters to be killed off, injured or made to be wrong in any major capacity - and as such, so many settings and writers have effectively been held hostage by their fans.

I just want a return to the consequence levels of ARR and HW. That was the peak of the game's writing for me.

[Kesey]

\Personally I don't care for most of the characters that exist to fawn over the Warrior of Light. At the very least, I'd like to see G'raha injured and quietly retired. Much like Zenos, he's overstayed his welcome for me.

I agree 100% with G'raha. In fact, I'd take it a step further and say that his continued presence in the story behaving the way he does sets an example for players who do not know better to think that kind of behavior is okay. It's not. He's basically a creep who won the friend lottery because he was powerful. That kind of behavior is unhealthy and uncalled for. He needs to go.

[Rosenstrauch]

All I really want from G'raha is to have him exorcised. Kick the Exarch out of him. Maybe have the incident shatter the pedestal he keeps the WoL on, while they're at it, and put some tension between him and the Scions. And I say that as someone who genuinely liked the Exarch as a character back when Shadowbringers launched. 5.1-5.4 kind of ruined him for me.

[Mahoukenshi]

I agree 100% with G'raha. In fact, I'd take it a step further and say that his continued presence in the story behaving the way he does sets an example for players who do not know better to think that kind of behavior is okay. It's not. He's basically a creep who won the friend lottery because he was powerful. That kind of behavior is unhealthy and uncalled for. He needs to go.

This sounds really farfechted. I mean, sure, there are simple folks out there, but to take an example of NPC behavior and use it to communicate/behave around other players? This sounds veeery absurd to me. Those people may have other, more serious, underlying issues. Not because one NPC is extreme-fawning over the WoL. That's simple power fantasy setting.

I agree in general that some people, myself included, have double-standard in applying the "character x has overstayed their welcome". I wish it for Zenos but not for the Scions *shrugs*. One thing I never understood is the "Kill character x because I don't like them." I've seen it in other MMOs as well (GW2: Taimi and Braham) and most "reasoning" was just childish.

[Iscah]

I agree 100% with G'raha. In fact, I'd take it a step further and say that his continued presence in the story behaving the way he does sets an example for players who do not know better to think that kind of behavior is okay. It's not. He's basically a creep who won the friend lottery because he was powerful. That kind of behavior is unhealthy and uncalled for. He needs to go.

I don't see an issue with G'raha because my character seems to reciprocate the relationship. It's not just one-way him showering us with compliments while we remain disinterested.

Haurchefant, on the other hand, is downright creepy to us a few times - moreso in the Japanese script with the English downplaying it, but there's one bit in post-ARR where we actually look unsettled or scared by what he's saying to us. They seem to have backed away from that take on him but it still creeps me out every time I get a character up to that point in the story.

[KizuyaKatogami]

This sounds really farfechted. I mean, sure, there are simple folks out there, but to take an example of NPC behavior and use it to communicate/behave around other players? This sounds veeery absurd to me. Those people may have other, more serious, underlying issues. Not because one NPC is extreme-fawning over the WoL. That's simple power fantasy setting.

I agree in general that some people, myself included, have double-standard in applying the "character x has overstayed their welcome". I wish it for Zenos but not for the Scions *shrugs*. One thing I never understood is the "Kill character x because I don't like them." I've seen it in other MMOs as well (GW2: Taimi and Braham) and most "reasoning" was just childish.

I just want him dead because he has as much plot armor as yshtola. We don’t need another yshtola in the group. Especially since with him, his plot armor has come at the expense of any plot consistency.(see:end of ShB)

[Theodric]

Haurchefant's biggest issue was not being consistent across all languages. He's praised as a hero and chivalrous individual but he was anything but - would he have sacrificed himself if he didn't have the hots for the Warrior of Light? Maybe...maybe not. I don't have a huge problem with the trope he represents, mostly because I've played a lot of JRPG's and become rather desensitised to such things. I can definitely appreciate how it came across as creepy and unwelcome, though.

At the end of the day, tastes differ. I don't consider G'raha to be worthy of the position of 'close friend' when there's other characters who the Warrior of Light has spent more time with who are artificially kept at a distance. At the very least, we need colder dialogue options that allow us to decline unwanted intimacy from specific characters.

Alisae's underage, for starters. Furthermore, my Warrior of Light isn't even into women...or overly feminine men, for that matter.

The likes of Hien and Thancred are more aligned with my personal tastes and those of my character as well - I appreciate when we get a little time spent with either and it's always vague enough to allow for people to 'ship' each character with the Warrior of Light if they so wish.

So I think they should dial things back when it comes to Alisae and G'raha.

[Lauront]

I agree 100% with G'raha. In fact, I'd take it a step further and say that his continued presence in the story behaving the way he does sets an example for players who do not know better to think that kind of behavior is okay. It's not. He's basically a creep who won the friend lottery because he was powerful. That kind of behavior is unhealthy and uncalled for. He needs to go.

The way you describe him there reminds me of Zenos for a moment.

[Bright-Flower]

Graha and Alisae to me always felt like hero worship and idolization but not flat out romantic attraction, but I suppose it's vague enough it could be interpreted that way too.

[Equitable_Remedy]

So... what I'm seeing in this thread is that a character absolutely has to die to make the story meaningful, but just killing a character wouldn't have any meaning.

Cool. Cool, cool, cool.