Tools they could add besides DPS meters... (For endgame)

[Dzian]

"Skill" and the obsession elitists have over it since they mention it non stop comes from the same place their obsession with "deserve" comes from.

You're wrong here. The people who have the obsession with "deserve" are typically not the "elite" players as you call them but it is the lower end ones. they have the common belief that if they pay the same sub they deserve the same rewards.

you will almost never see a top tier player actively tell someone they can't have something. what they typically say is sure you can have it. just go and do whatever piece of content it comes from. you said as much yourself here

through time anyone can beat any encounter

that being the case why do people cry and proclaim that they deserve those rewards to be handed to them on a silver platter. because they pay the same sub. or other similar arguement.

if anyone can beat any encounter given time then what is the problem with keeping rewards tied to it and having them maintain there value and significance? the reality is people are often just lazy and feel they are entitled to or deserve the same rewards without any of the effort.

You talk about community health also but this obsession with lower tier players feeling they deserve the same rewards as the higher tier players is ultimately the most detrimental thing to the health of this game..

the game and the community should be helpig players rise to the various challenges within. promoting player growth, player development, stronger social bonds...

what ffxiv does is the opposite. it never helps players rise to the chalenges instead it promote laziness and entitlement. it brings the challenges down to the player and this is why players get bored and find the game unrewarding..

ffxiv as a game has no problem pulling new players in but it has an incredibly tough timekeeping players interested or engaged. some of the bigger fc company leadersthat often welcome newbies often say this.. they can get 20 new members today and in the next month or 2 find that maybe only 2 or 3 are still playing.. I've said myself the game really isnt that great. the main thing t hat keeps me playing is my group of friends.

it's not the top tier players that are obsessed with who deserves what. if they're obsessed with anything it's fairness. want the same reward. do the same challenge. basic fairness.

its the lower end players who are obsessed with entitlement and deserve.. they want all the shiny things but they dont want to step up to the challenges, they feel entitled they feel they deserve. they feel they shouldnt have to earn it fairly..

[Vahlnir]

Funny thing WoW is not even that bad. Sure you run into the few that will rag on someone for their numbers but if you press your buttons and not trying to push for keys without understanding how to play most just ignore it. Please stop hyping up the few negative experiences as the standard.

Yes people that harass due to numbers exist but they are not the norm. I swear the real reason people are so afraid of them allowing a dps meter stems from that fact that many just do not want to run the risk of being held accountable for their play.

I get it is just a game but hardly anyone expects perfrect play but they do expect a dps to not do 10% of the total damage in a 50+ dungeon.

Most of the negativity I've seen in WoW in recent years hasn't been regarding dps. Just general gameplay/mechanic fails. Basically just take the worst possible scenario here and increase the magnitude by 5. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it can get pretty heated.

[Colt47]

Guys, if you're going to talk about elitism, that is for another thread. Elitism as people see it in this game exists everywhere, and complaining about it wont make it go away. The reason we're looking at alternative tools to DPS meters is because the goal of the FFXIV team is to cater to a friendly environment, which competitive gaming doesn't typically foster. At the end of the day, the hostilities and difficulties of the higher tier content are from the lack of in-game tools to assist in overcoming the challenges. They put a lot of these tools in the standard content such as the floor markers, though the content itself in normal mode is mostly made to seem difficult rather than be difficult.

Savage is well designed content, but it has accessibility issues not so much from elitism but from the lack of in-game resources. People have to spend a lot of time outside the game researching fights before stepping in, unless they are specifically the week one grinders that do the discovery phase. I mean I wouldn't even be bothered if they had a learning mode where they do show the floor markers if that is easier to implement, but I think a tool that shows that information post mortem would work better since you don't want to become used to the markers being there.

[Kaurhz]

Snip

If you did an adequate amount of research before putting your fingers on the keyboard you'd realize the person has a Level80 Ninja. Lol

Besides, his position within the game irrespective of much or little doesn't invalidate what opinion(s) the person has when it is in response to someone creating hyperbole in order to try and validate some absurd prerogative. When you use the duty finder (and party finder therein) in order to prog content you already relinquish your right to create expectancies, if you don't like it; create your own group of individuals to tackle the content as people will eventually fall short of the bar for a wide variety of reasons.

[Awha]

Most of the negativity I've seen in WoW in recent years hasn't been regarding dps. Just general gameplay/mechanic fails. Basically just take the worst possible scenario here and increase the magnitude by 5. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does it can get pretty heated.

It really is not that bad depending on the content in question. People just generally expect a certain level on competence depending on the content. So sure things get heated when you get an LFR only player trying to push harder content when they have not put in any effort to learn their job and play it well enough to maintain a consistent level of play while also executing mechanics and maintain awareness.

It would not be anymore heated then it is now instead it will just happen in game and not in discord. People fighting against it have no logical reason to be against the tool outside of a emotionally fueled response based around a few negative encounters. It is akin to people saying all x is bad cause sub set y has a negative experiences with x ignoring every other positive or neutral action that people have with x.

[ZedxKayn]

If you did an adequate amount of research before putting your fingers on the keyboard you'd realize the person has a Level80 Ninja. Lol

I did actually, just yesterday (or was just a few minutes ago?) his NIN was still at 75, on the forum and the lodestone both. Then I invite you to do your own research and check his gear on the lodestone: you can't enter savage with scaevan gear.

Besides, his position within the game irrespective of much or little doesn't invalidate what opinion(s) the person has when it is in response to someone creating hyperbole in order to try and validate some absurd prerogative. When you use the duty finder (and party finder therein) in order to prog content you already relinquish your right to create expectancies, if you don't like it; create your own group of individuals to tackle the content as people will eventually fall short of the bar for a wide variety of reasons.

No, people are allowed to have expectations in savage content. That's why I left parties with dead weights when I pugged last tier, or kicked them when I was the party owner. I didn't join a WL2 prog to not even get past add phase.

[Kaurhz]

I did actually, just yesterday (or was just a few minutes ago?) his NIN was still at 75, on the forum and the lodestone both. Then I invite you to do your own research and check his gear on the lodestone: you can't enter savage with scaevan gear.



No, people are allowed to have expectations in savage content. That's why I left parties with dead weights when I pugged last tier, or kicked them when I was the party owner. I didn't join a WL2 prog to not even get past add phase.

Then I will invite you to read my post: "Besides, his position within the game irrespective of much or little doesn't invalidate what opinion(s) the person has.."

If you engage in any form of combat activities in this game that require group participation then you're perfectly within the boundary to give an opinion on the matter. People will underperform irrespective of whether the content is a daily routine, savage, or Ultimate. Whether or not this argument of his was done on insufficient research or experience, or not is one thing, but to attempt to dismiss it or undermine it outright is nonsense.

Let me clarify; they're in no position to cry about it, especially those that are crying have more than likely on several occasions been on the same footing of underperforming, people knew what they were getting into when they elected to go through with progressing with pugs. Different people will progress at different rates, and thus inconsistencies are likely to occur so wipes would be expected before the specified phase that you wish to progress.

[DPZ2]

An icon or sound queue on training dummies (at least) showing if you are hitting positionals.

I am confused. My encounters with the training dummy led me to believe that you can't practice positionals, since the dummy always turns to "face" you.

[linayar]

I am confused. My encounters with the training dummy led me to believe that you can't practice positionals, since the dummy always turns to "face" you.

You can get behind a dummy. It does not turn.

[ZedxKayn]

Then I will invite you to read my post: "Besides, his position within the game irrespective of much or little doesn't invalidate what opinion(s) the person has.."

If you engage in any form of combat activities in this game that require group participation then you're perfectly within the boundary to give an opinion on the matter. People will underperform irrespective of whether the content is a daily routine, savage, or Ultimate. Whether or not this argument of his was done on insufficient research or experience, or not is one thing, but to attempt to dismiss it or undermine it outright is nonsense.

Let me clarify; they're in no position to cry about it, people knew what they were getting into when they elected to go through with progressing with pugs. Different people will progress at different rates, and thus inconsistencies are likely to occur so wipes would be expected before the specified phase that you wish to progress.

An opinion sure, but how much credibility does it have?
I think they can be undermined, like I'm going to undermine the opinion of someone who's hardest PvE content cleared is Totorak trying to talk about their inexistent Expert trials experience.

Or for example I really don't think someone hardstuck bronze in LoL has any business talking about what it's like being in Grandmaster.
The level is different, what they are facing is different, the level of play expected of them is different, it's pretty much playing an entirely different video game at this point, and this applies to everything with a wide skill floor/ceiling gap.

So yes I really don't think his opinion on something he does not partake in holds any weight, just like I don't think my opinion on expert crafting when I seldom do more than macro does, and the "walking into a topic with (endgame) in the title without a job at 80 at the time and crying about toxic elitists being too entitled" doesn't make it any better.