Tools they could add besides DPS meters... (For endgame)

[Ralph2449]

In any case, this why I said parsers represent a slippery slope earlier in the discussion.

That is my main point really, I am not saying that pandering to X elitist idea/mentality/system Ff14 will instantly turn into WoW, that won’t happen overnight, but when such ideas are accepted and embraced through time it will turn into a toxic elitist mess.
thankfully it seems the devs also understand that and have WoW show them what happens when you focus on high end at the expense of everything else so I do feel safer but that doesn’t mean I ll be complacent and trust that will remain so forever hence vigilance is important.

So when I notice an elitist mentality/argument, like the ones only us ‘elites’ deserve’ good rewards and they shouldn’t be accessible to others I will absolutely fight against it because tolerating such elitist ideas is a slippery slope that will turn the game toxic after a while and like the community has proven, the best way to stop elitism is to stop it early from growing deep roots no matter how much they complain about the invented toxic casualism to look like the victims.

if you read the comments or listened to many of the higher players

Of course I don’t listen to what they say, people lie to themselves very often, I care about that their actions say, and when elitists start moaning when content is nerfed, when rewards become more accessible to casuals via casual or solo challenges, or the uproar they cause here because the devs don’t treat them like the special elite citizenry they have deluded themselves to believe they are because they beat high end content and thus should be more ‘worthy’ and ‘entitled’ to dev resources than the majority of the playerbase which is why the fact that the devs aren’t prioritizing ultimates has caused so many fights in here.

When one observes such an unhealthy behavior, we know that words used by such players are often lies and excuses to protect themselves, hence why I keep using the term unhealthy, lying to yourself and believe in delusions is unhealthy and wrong.

Just like that person who refuses to admit this is about ego even when the behavior makes it quite clear that self esteem issues is the internal motivation driving that person, of course the person who is suffering from his behavior cannot admit that, their ego and more importantly belief that they ‘achieved some hard’ which makes them ‘special’ and ‘deserving’ would crumble, and sadly humans would always choose denial and living in a lie over introspection and admitting harsher personal truths cuz that means you have to rethink your beliefs in a core level

EVERY SINGLE PLAYER has equal access to that content and those rewards

Yeah I ve seen this excuse in WoW often, everyone ‘technically’ has access so it must be fine, not like there’s social barriers and many other elitist driven problems that make content insufferable to do and therefore lead to casuals leaving in droves in their latest expansion that doubled down in your desired elitist mentality.
Where rewards and even gear progression is withheld from casuals, but hey there shouldn’t be a problem, technically everyone can spend hours, suffer playing through insufferable elitist tryhard metaslaves and spend hours getting 2 shot by them and boosters with mythic gear, no, clearly very accessible to all : ^)

If they choose not to because there lazy or whatever..

Ah yes, the typical elitist excuse, those casuals ‘plebs’ must be really bad, unskilled, lazy, incompetent to do our content, that is why they aren’t doing it, not like other issues exist that were described multiple times even in this very thread.

The fact that you are so against of making a game truly accessible and want to withhold your ‘special high end’ rewards from others and choose to demean people who want the rewards but can’t get them only proves what I ve been saying from the start, your ego depends on keeping achievements/rewards locked because it makes you feel special

I bet you would love WoW where they literally made it require achievements to upgrade gear past a certain level so those casual plebs can never have the gear you have

which leads me to assume your relatively new.

if that assumption is accurate then you're not really in a position to say its a really fun game that lasts for ages you haven't played long enough. and if you talk to people or leaders

Ah yes because people shouldn’t really talk unless they support what narrative the elite wants to spread, people are just too stupid to get what they are saying so they shouldn’t talk unless they have x elite title.

I am sure even by this forum that elitists and of course their in groups they fit with dislike many aspects of the game and would see it changed and slowly turn into WoW which is why your very anecdotal evidence means little to me.

Mmo population is using a number of algorithm and online booths to gauge the sentiment, popularity and activity of multiple mmos, the algorithms they use are the same for each game so even if the exact numbers aren’t accurate, the comparative charts are, and that shows ff14 has been CONSISTENTLY increasing in popularity and numbers unlike WoW that people keep giving it a chance and abandoning it in droves, which is were we see a WoD level sub drop in shadowlands because just like WoD they chose to focus on high end at the expense of casuals.

So yeah I think I ll trust that data over random elitists that seem to be whining they don’t get enough attention they ‘deserve’ because they believe beating a video game designed to be beaten makes them entitled to dev resources.

but it seems to me your saying you want to be lazy and have all the shinies handed to you freely on a silver platter and anyone who thinks thats wrong or unfair is an elitist gatekeeping toxic pos..

Well if your ego wasn’t attached to said ‘shinies’ you wouldn’t have a problem with it or even care, similarly to how in WoW people are using your same argument towards anyone demand fair gear for all because god forbid those dirty casual ‘plebs’ get mythic gear right? Imagine having to be on equal footing instead of keeping people down so you can further delude yourself you are better.

Actual ‘elite’ aka skilled who happen to be healthy because they don’t need external sources to tell them how great they are have no problem with giving everyone a path to progress to max ilvl, but unhealthy elitists foam to the very idea.

[ZedxKayn]

snip

The irony of writing this drivel and calling the boogeymen deluded.

No one is moaning when gear becomes easier to obtain through echo and unsync, or when people who don't do Savage can get their augmented gear when the mats become available. Absolutely no one.
The only one moaning here is you.
If you want current gear, come and get it, no one is preventing you from it. But you won't get it for free. You'll have to learn your job and strats for it, like we all did. If you do what we all did, good on you, no one is going to care that you're geared.

Don't like the content? Then it, and the rewards tied for it, are not for you, simple as. Not being so obnoxiously entitled isn't that difficult.
No content in this game is gatekept as far as I know, people are completely free to choose to partake or not. Like I'm not going to get the Cerberus mount by choosing not to do DRS, or the Dragonsung tools by not wanting to bother with expert recipes, people who choose not to do Savage and play accordingly won't get their Eden weapon.

And for the nth time, this is FFXIV, this isn't WoW or any other MMO you've played before, the communities are not the same.

[Vahlnir]

the best way to stop elitism is to stop it early from growing deep roots no matter how much they complain about the invented toxic casualism to look like the victims.

Honestly? I've seen far more toxic casuals in this game compared to toxic elitists. Just saying. But this is by and large a casual MMO experience so...lots of casual players, which means some of them are going to be jerks. The same could be said about any group of players though. It's the internet. Jerks are going to show themselves because they can remain anonymous, and they can be any type of player.

[Liam_Harper]

no matter how much they complain about the invented toxic casualism to look like the victims.

I like how you say this when your long rant is full of attacks, digs and insults towards the "elitists". It's basically the definition of toxic.

[WoW]

Oh boy, why have I not noticed this gem of a thread!

So when I notice an elitist mentality/argument, like the ones only us ‘elites’ deserve’ good rewards and they shouldn’t be accessible to others I will absolutely fight against it because tolerating such elitist ideas is a slippery slope that will turn the game toxic after a while and like the community has proven, the best way to stop elitism is to stop it early from growing deep roots no matter how much they complain about the invented toxic casualism to look like the victims.

Too late, the idea is already tolerated and approved by Yoshi P himself! He acknowledged the effort and worth of ultimate weapons and titles to the "elites" that did them. So Ultimates will never be unsynced and the rewards will only be obtainable by the "elites" (unless you're one of those casuals that would pay for it). He even locked the Morbol mount behind synced, no echo, full BLU party ROFL.

So yeah, you want something? work for it! Stop being a toxic entitled casual.

[Colt47]

Guys, if you're going to talk about elitism, that is for another thread. Elitism as people see it in this game exists everywhere, and complaining about it wont make it go away. The reason we're looking at alternative tools to DPS meters is because the goal of the FFXIV team is to cater to a friendly environment, which competitive gaming doesn't typically foster. At the end of the day, the hostilities and difficulties of the higher tier content are from the lack of in-game tools to assist in overcoming the challenges. They put a lot of these tools in the standard content such as the floor markers, though the content itself in normal mode is mostly made to seem difficult rather than be difficult.

Savage is well designed content, but it has accessibility issues not so much from elitism but from the lack of in-game resources. People have to spend a lot of time outside the game researching fights before stepping in, unless they are specifically the week one grinders that do the discovery phase. I mean I wouldn't even be bothered if they had a learning mode where they do show the floor markers if that is easier to implement, but I think a tool that shows that information post mortem would work better since you don't want to become used to the markers being there.

[Mahoukenshi]

it's not the top tier players that are obsessed with who deserves what. if they're obsessed with anything it's fairness. want the same reward. do the same challenge. basic fairness.

its the lower end players who are obsessed with entitlement and deserve.. they want all the shiny things but they dont want to step up to the challenges, they feel entitled they feel they deserve. they feel they shouldnt have to earn it fairly..

Yeah...No. Not always. Again, cheap stereotyping helps nobody. The raiders who want equality are the reasoable ones who don't foam out of rage and hatred for the bad, bad "casuals" (which, of course, also consist of good and bad apples). WoW has shown more than once that (in terms of manners and behavior) bad raiders can cry and flood forums with tears just as good as bad casuals when their "effort" is undermined by for example gear resets with each xpansion ("muh raid gear is replaced with normal quest rewards") or they fear to lose their bragging rights. Again, not every raider but the dunderheads thinking that being mature is only related to cheese.

As for the topic at hand: While I'm sure this topic goes down into the same "raider vs non-raider" slugfest, I'm all for tools helping self-improvements.
In general, RNG groups can expect from me two things - 1) Doing mechanics as good as I manage them and 2) Using skills as it seems logical, i. e. AoE on mobs, not AoE on boss or < 3 enemies. What they can not expect: Me practicing any form of serious rotation/opener sequence. It reminds me of junior high memorizing and learing vocabulary. It's boring and would make me sleepy really fast. I read my tooltips and arrange the skills as I see it suitable (as a notoric clicker). In exchange, I guarantee that you'll never see me in extreme, savage or ultima content and - outside of roulettes - only in story dungeons pre-Trusts or story trials once.

[Esmoire]

Kind of minor but when working on the exterior of a home, I'd like... the ability to make the plot look as if there's daylight, even if just in editing mode. I say this because I have a hard time figuring out how things will look-- especially colour-- during the night. Right now the best thing you can do is wait for morning or switch to gpose and create a bunch of lights which isn't ideal.

[Jonnycbad]

I think they should something to help players differentiate if the enemy ability being casted is an AoE or a Tank buster. Similar to how they recently made the cast bar pulse red if it's "Interruptable", maybe they can make it pulse a different color or have some kind of fire effect or more bold font to indicate tank buster? If you're a new player and playhing through ARR as a tank, you never come into contact with experiencing an actual casted tank buster (because ARR uses many instacast TBs), but then you get into HW and start experiencing them and have to learn off the cuff by memorizing which attacks are TBs. They can streamline this by cueing tanks to look out for TBs, cue healers by making them look out for party busters (moves that do extreme damage unless mitigated, or reduce hp to 1) etc.

[Colt47]

Eh, it is a bit complicated to talk about accessibility. There is a bit of a design mistake that happened in FFXIV where the mechanics got attached to aesthetics, which is a dangerous thing to do in any game since it means that players who want to be the gunman are stuck with the mechanics linked to the gunman, including the baggage that goes with it. Machinist is a very fast paced job and it isn't suitable to every player, but would you go tell that player that he can play dancer? He wanted to be the gunman, and he probably doesn't like the whimsy of the dancer. It's the same thing with monk and other jobs.

And by no means am I saying Machinist and monk are unplayable: They are playable jobs, but they aren't right for every player. Those players that DO like the current version of that job would obviously complain if it were slowed or simplified. But these sort of details also impact accessibility, or the perception of it, because ultimately accessibility is a factor of the job one plays and the content it is being played in. That's why when I was advocating new addons to make savage more accessible, I never brought up something like nerfing the speed of jobs while in savage. Right now the only thing they can do is give better learning tools to help overcome the issues people face when using more complex, faster paced jobs, simply because it is what they wanted to play aesthetically.