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  1. #1
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    Ralph2449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colt47 View Post
    I just think that having more tools that actively assist in learning mechanics would be beneficial and avoid encouraging the elitism that kind of plagued WoW. DPS meters do have a place, but it's actually kind of narrow in the grand scheme of things.
    The problem with elitists and tryhards is that they are quite entitled and unironically expect everyone to perform on X level(Still remember seeing a tryhard whine about zurvan extreme p1 pools not being perfect, no, nobody died or had a problem, it simply wasnt his static level of coordination) and love to use DPS meters to blame people when in reality DPS is not even the problem but it is always the easy excuse, people who will focus on blaming dps when a dps check is failed or enrage happens often are quite wrong since the reason those things happened was because people failed mechanics therefore people werent alive to dps and/or had the rez debuff, those were the real reasons the dps check failed, not someone not being l33t optimal at all times.

    It is really rare for everyone to do the mechanics well yet still fail the dps check when the game is so generous on its DPS requirements since there is quite a big gap between best performance and performance required to clear, even though certain tryhards expect 90 parses for content that requires 40 but that is also done because if you pretend the requirements is that high your achievement must be that high too right? This is completely a psychological problem with people whose self esteem depends on video games.
    (3)

  2. #2
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    ForteNightshade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    The problem with elitists and tryhards is that they are quite entitled and unironically expect everyone to perform on X level(Still remember seeing a tryhard whine about zurvan extreme p1 pools not being perfect, no, nobody died or had a problem, it simply wasnt his static level of coordination) and love to use DPS meters to blame people when in reality DPS is not even the problem but it is always the easy excuse, people who will focus on blaming dps when a dps check is failed or enrage happens often are quite wrong since the reason those things happened was because people failed mechanics therefore people werent alive to dps and/or had the rez debuff, those were the real reasons the dps check failed, not someone not being l33t optimal at all times.

    It is really rare for everyone to do the mechanics well yet still fail the dps check when the game is so generous on its DPS requirements since there is quite a big gap between best performance and performance required to clear, even though certain tryhards expect 90 parses for content that requires 40 but that is also done because if you pretend the requirements is that high your achievement must be that high too right? This is completely a psychological problem with people whose self esteem depends on video games.
    The whole reason "Skip Soar or disband" became a meme is basically it was laughably easy to skip. It literally required a basic opener because Zurvan does nothing. There aren't any mechanics to worry about by that point in the fight. If you understood the basic functions of your job, you'd skip Soar. Therefore, groups unable to skip weren't able to perform at that minimal a level. It isn't elitism to expect reasonable levels of damage in harder content. And no, barely meeting enrage isn't "reasonable" unless its the first week or learning party that only just reached said enrage.

    You keep citing "tryhards" and "elitists" yet seemingly disregard players like a BLM dealing 15k in E11S. But it's okay because the group can still clear, right? Even if upwards seven other players have to perform at a higher level simply to compensate for someone who doesn't know what they're doing. That is what frustrates players. People rarely expect top tier numbers in pugs unless its a parse run. They do, however, hope for decent numbers like I mentioned above. Not only because it leads to faster kills but also potentially removes added risk.
    (11)
    Last edited by ForteNightshade; 03-19-2021 at 12:40 PM.
    "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
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  3. #3
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    Ralph2449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    The whole reason "Skip Soar or disband" became a meme is basically it was laughably east to skip. It literally required a basic opener because Zurvan does nothing. There aren't any mechanics to worry about by that point in the fight. If you understood the basic functions of your job, you'd skip Soar. Therefore, groups unable to skip weren't able to perform at that minimal a level. It isn't elitism to expect reasonable levels of damage in harder content.
    Reasonable*=See inflated

    I wasnt talking about soar, I was talking about flare star which is why I mentioned p1, that phase that literally lasts for less than a minute, I was in a group with a tryhard who unironically complained about the placement as if he was in some static tryhard group, it was a pug and it was not something that caused anyone problem and there was more than enough safe space to move to, he just complained because it wanst that perfectly stacked flare star IN A PUG.

    So no it wasnt about a dps check, it was just a delusional tryhard who for some reason expects people to have done the fight in some l33t group a million times before and follows their l33t strat at all times cuz of course everyone must have done that fight when it was current.

    And you show your elitism by literally what you said, the devs did not intend for soar to always be skipped else it wouldnt exist, it is a mechanic that exists to be done, by saying everyone should skip it or disband, it means you expect everyone to have performance above what the encounter actually requires which is chosen by the devs, therefore you have falsely inflated the requirements for that content which results in elitism and gatekeeping.


    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    But it's okay because the group can still clear, right?
    Yes, when the content has generous checks and even allows for mistakes so you can still clear after that then it is okay, the world didnt end, someone just didnt play well, instead of being offended by the fact not everyone is a tryhard maybe you should have felt better for yourself for having above average performance to get everyone through, I am starting to think this western mentality that seems to be repulsed by anyone underperfoming comes for the delusional "pull yourself up from your bootstraps" meme since it is the same thing but for irl.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    That is what frustrates players.
    Maybe players shouldnt be playing a game if they cant have fun without expecting people to be on their already INFLATED level, this is a video game, not a job, not something you do to please others and definitely not something that your self worth should depend on.
    If you are frustrated cuz someone is learning or is new, you are the problem for having severely unrealistic and false expectations and that is on you, if you treated this like a video game you wouldnt be having such problems.
    (5)

  4. #4
    Player
    Dzian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    And you show your elitism by literally what you said, the devs did not intend for soar to always be skipped else it wouldnt exist, it is a mechanic that exists to be done, by saying everyone should skip it or disband, it means you expect everyone to have performance above what the encounter actually requires which is chosen by the devs, therefore you have falsely inflated the requirements for that content which results in elitism and gatekeeping..
    In truth that encounter was also designed by the same developers who designed the mechanics to accomodate 2 tanks.
    With that in mind you can't really label it elitism when everyone was running a 1 tank set up specifically for the purpose of bringing some extra dps to skip that mechanic.

    It wasnt expecting the 4 damage dealers to step up there game and perform above and beyond the minimum required of them.
    It was taking a 5th damage dealer in place of a second tank to do the extra damage required to skip that mechanic.
    That being said taking 5 damage dealers and throwing criticism when they only do the damage of 4 damage dealers isn't elitism it's fair critisism.

    Even the average Joes were throwing up party finders with a 1 tank set up, it wasn't just the top tier players. The laughable thing about that fight is because every PF group was running 1 tank setups and as such there were a ton of tanks who weren't able to get groups, Which then led to parties of 6 tanks and 2 healers skipping soar mechanics when parties of 5 dps jobs couldn't... That's why its such a meme...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    It is really rare for everyone to do the mechanics well yet still fail the dps check when the game is so generous on its DPS requirements since there is quite a big gap between best performance and performance required to clear, even though certain tryhards expect 90 parses for content that requires 40 but that is also done because if you pretend the requirements is that high your achievement must be that high too right? This is completely a psychological problem with people whose self esteem depends on video games.
    Ironically it's usually the "bad" (insert better choice of word) players whose self esteem often depends on video games. This is where the sentiment of escapism stems from. People who are lazy, depressed, lonely or feel they can't accomplish anything in there life often escape to video games as a means of finding self esteem.. This is why they often complain about elitism, gatekepping, tryhards.. and a bunch of other terms.

    In comparison a lot of the better players (again terrible word choice) play video games to supplement life not escape from it. They hold jobs, families, lives, and still make time to take on the various challenges video games throw at them...

    Where as the players who use games as escapism are often the entitled ones. who whine when they can't get that shiny that someone else has so cry for it to be made easier and handed to them on a silver platter. They complain about gate keeping and other such stuff when in reality the only one blocking there path is themselves. No-one is blocking you from entering a piece of content and getting that reward because they dont want you to have it, so there is no gatekeeping or elitism.. Hell they'd probably pat you on the back and say good job if you did take it on and smash it instead of saying "NO you can't have this..."

    This is what kills a lot of the content in the game. The way all the rewards and trophies lose all there value and significance because people feel entitled to the same rewards but with none of the effort... It's not about how many people have x trophy or x item. Its about what it represents generally.

    I'm far from a top end player these days so iIm definitly not an elitist. I smashed Coil In ARR, dabbled with Alexander in HW. by SB my raiding was basically slot filler for a couple of friends so I have a few clears but sporadic. Omega 1 2, 6, 7, 10 I think? and I've never set foot in eden savage because there's just no real motivation to do so when they keep nerfing everything...

    In my mind it's like busting ya ass off in the 500m to win a gold medal. and then find everyone got one at the finish line... You could have walked and still got one (kinda destroys the significance or value.)
    (9)
    Last edited by Dzian; 03-19-2021 at 06:45 AM.

  5. #5
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    Ralph2449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzian View Post
    cry for it to be made easier and handed to them on a silver platter. they complain about gatekeeping and other suchstuff when the only one blocking there path is themselves. noone is blocking you from entering a piece of content and getting that reward because they dont want you to have it so there is no gatekeeping or elitism..

    this is what kills a lot of the content in the game the way all the rewards and trophies lose all there value and significance because people feel entitled to the same rewards but with none of the effort.
    Like i said earlier, if you are a decent player you dont need to be told that by the game via achievements and by getting showered with unique rewards, you either know that or you are extremely insecure and need outside entities to congratulate you to feel validated, this system actually leads to extreme elitism and can be seen in WoW where literally you see posts like "You havent done X high end content so your opinion doesnt matter" because in an extremely elitist and tryhard community like that all that matters is doing high end content and showing off achievements/rewards you might not even like how they look. (Oh and this "nobody is stopping" you excuse doesnt work on someone who has played WoW and can see how such communities work, good luck making groups or joining groups with a non meta class in the extremely toxic, elitist and metaslave pug community that is WoW, or are you the kind that tells everyone how easy it is to find good friends or jump from fc to fc until you find a decent one, yeah when you have to go through this much social trouble, it is gatekeeping because this is a VIDEO GAME, NOT A JOB YOU HATE but have to go through because of the reward)

    I was in the minority of people whose ego doesnt depend on video game achievements in that game so I would have absolutely zero problems with bringing back old mage tower/unique appearances so new players can get them nor would I have an issue if people who just did casual solo content had a path to mythic gear since I would still get it faster, but the elitists who want to keep everyone down and want to delude themselves that they achieved something in life are extremely attached to all those "elite rewards" so they dont want to share it with others because "omg I wont get to feel special anymore "

    Content is meant to be done because it is fun and you enjoy it, not purely because of the rewards and the delusion of "prestige" to help with your self esteem issues, sadly gamers often have self esteem issues and get hooked into the feeling of "I got this special reward cuz I did this elite thing" which leads to incredibly obnoxious people that turn the community toxic.

    So absolutely NO, rewards should be available to all and people should get them cuz they like them, not for the reasons I mentioned.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    Dzian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    Content is meant to be done because it is fun and you enjoy it, not purely because of the rewards and the delusion of "prestige" to help with your self esteem issues, sadly gamers often have self esteem issues and get hooked into the feeling of "I got this special reward cuz I did this elite thing" which leads to incredibly obnoxious people that turn the community toxic.

    So absolutely NO, rewards should be available to all and people should get them cuz they like them, not for the reasons I mentioned.
    You're going into the realm of Intrisinc vs Extrinsic motivation here, and seem to have the opinion that extrinsic motivation is not fun. In so much as hating your day job I may agree.

    But extrinsic motivators can and more often are a lot of fun and enjoyment for many people. This is true with many hobbies or pattimes.. You can play soccer.. Intrinsicly just have a bit of a kick around with your friends in the local park for a laugh. Or extrinsicly form a team for a local league or tournament with the aim to win that cup or trophy. Doesnt suddenly mean its not fun to take part in.

    Arguably with the age of the internet extrinsic motivators are a bigger driving force than ever. With many people seeking fame or other forms of recognition for everything they do.. From how many likes your recent facebook selfie got. to how many followers you have on twitch or subscribers on youtube etc etc.

    I personally have a hobbie of flying model helicopters and airplanes and while I often fly them just for fun. I also push myself to be better at it because I sometimes enter flying competions win a few trophies or even get hired to do arial photography, and there's a great deal of fun and satisfaction in winning a trophy or taking that perfect photo..

    Video games are no different. Extrinsic motivators are often a great deal of fun and incredibly satisfying...

    Intrinsic fun is often pretty shallow and short lived by comparison. In a way you can see this in xiv with the way in which it makes everything ridiculously easy to obtain.. a new player today might go and get the pony mount from ifrit today and have fun riding it around today... tomorrow though it'll probably be forgotten about and never used again.... already bored of it because theres no extrinsic value associated to it.

    Another example Mobile gaming.. Mobile games are often designed to be simple and heavily intrinsic. but the result of that is they come and go very very quickly.. download it today play it on the train home.. uninstall it 2 or 3 days later already bored of it... Which is why many are so in your face with microtransactions because if they dont get your money in the first 48 hours they never will.
    (8)
    Last edited by Dzian; 03-19-2021 at 06:51 AM.

  7. #7
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    Ralph2449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dzian View Post
    arguably with the age of the internet extrinsic motivators are a bigger driving force than ever. with many people seeking fame or other forms of recognition for everything they do.. from how many likes your recent facebook selfie got. to how many followers you have on twitch or subscribers on youtube etc etc.
    All of them being quite dangerous, unhealthy and lead to formation of delusions which are kind of a bad thing that should be avoided which that leads to the topic of companies deluding people and making them feel better by telling them how great they are for achieving basic tasks which they assist the player via visual clues he often is not even aware in exchange for money which once again leads to delusions which are a bad thing but hey to company made their money which is their true goal. You see fun is not as subjective as some like to believe, the reason you are enjoying something can be ascertained and judged whenever it is healthy or good, as well as the consequences of said "fun" has to people around them.
    I am sure a person with self esteem issues loves playing a broken class that can 2-3 shot other players in pvp though that is wrong because 1) he doesnt deserve the feeling of victory because he is abusing a broken class and thus his feeling of "fun" shouldnt justifiably happen yet it still happens no matter how wrong that is, 2) this hurts the people around him which in turn makes a community worse.

    This game is far superior to WoW in my eyes exactly because it doesnt force people into things they dont like for the rewards, it doesnt rush people, it doesnt force them to deal with an incredibly toxic, elitist and tryhard community, and considering it is doing really well sub wise I am feeling the game has the right direction, because we have WoW to see what happens when the systems you suggest are embraced. (Though I will agree that the predatory, manipulative, elite achievement focused game like WoW is far more profitable because it pushes people to buy tokens for carries and keeps people with self esteem issues hooked to the feeling of being "elite", but like everyone should know by now very well, profitable=/=good game)

    So yeah, I think if people want an achievement focused elitist mess, they should absolutely try out WoW, if they want a fun video game that exists to be enjoyed as a whole world rather than hook you via manipulative practices, FF14 should be their choice.

    And based on recent mmo population data, FF14 has only been increasing in sub numbers consistently so this casual approach seems to also be pretty successful, especially with many people probably coming from WoW's ultimate tryhard xpac that is shadowlands where they doubled down in the achievement focused gameplay you seem to be fond of.
    (3)

  8. #8
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    ForteNightshade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    Reasonable*=See inflated

    I wasnt talking about soar, I was talking about flare star which is why I mentioned p1, that phase that literally lasts for less than a minute, I was in a group with a tryhard who unironically complained about the placement as if he was in some static tryhard group, it was a pug and it was not something that caused anyone problem and there was more than enough safe space to move to, he just complained because it wanst that perfectly stacked flare star IN A PUG.

    So no it wasnt about a dps check, it was just a delusional tryhard who for some reason expects people to have done the fight in some l33t group a million times before and follows their l33t strat at all times cuz of course everyone must have done that fight when it was current.
    So a basic opener is inflated in an Extreme Trial fight? That's literally the barest of minimum expectations to have of anyone.

    Could they have been a Black Mage, Bard or Machinist per chance, all of which had cast times in Heavensward, and in the case of Black Mage, very minimal movement tools? If so, they were likely upset someone baited a Flare Star AoE near them, which focused excessive movement. While not something to rage over, it's certainly annoying, and yes, worthy of being brought up. Perhaps instead of defaulting to calling someone a tryhard if they show even the slightest interest in maintaining their damage, you might notice these things. Granted, they could have threw a gasket, though based on your responses in this thread alone. I suspect it's you making them out to be the bad guy far more if only because in less than a paragraph, you've insulted them several times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    And you show your elitism by literally what you said, the devs did not intend for soar to always be skipped else it wouldnt exist, it is a mechanic that exists to be done, by saying everyone should skip it or disband, it means you expect everyone to have performance above what the encounter actually requires which is chosen by the devs, therefore you have falsely inflated the requirements for that content which results in elitism and gatekeeping.
    And now we see you throwing "elitism" around for even the slightest disagreement. Not everyone wants to perform at the barest minimum and just "get by". If a party advertises "Skipping Soar," then by joining their party you're agreeing to such a prerequisite. If you aren't capable of doing so, you have no business joining. That isn't elitism but simple courtesy. If there aren't any parties available tailored towards your preference, make your own. If it doesn't fill quickly, then the community has spoken.

    Speaking of which, what the devs intended is, frankly, irrelevant. The community decisions what standards exists. A prime example is healer DPS. The dev team never intended for healers to contribute large amounts of DPS. In fact, Yoshida infamously claimed they don't calculate healer DPS at all despite releasing Gordias and Mids, which were downright impossible without. That statement has since but walked back to claim they don't calculate healer DPS outside of early week prog, or at least not heavily. Regardless, the community has more or less thrown out that entire philosophy be it due to equal contribution arguments, lackluster healing design both mechanical and encounter wise or simply adapting to the systems given.

    That last statement is important as I can flip your argument and say if they didn't want players setting higher expectations like Skip Soar. They shouldn't have put it at a HP threshold low enough players can easily skip if they're reasonably competent at their job. Expectations don't arise out of thin air but from adaptation within the game rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    Yes, when the content has generous checks and even allows for mistakes so you can still clear after that then it is okay, the world didnt end, someone just didnt play well, instead of being offended by the fact not everyone is a tryhard maybe you should have felt better for yourself for having above average performance to get everyone through, I am starting to think this western mentality that seems to be repulsed by anyone underperfoming comes for the delusional "pull yourself up from your bootstraps" meme since it is the same thing but for irl.
    My issue with this mentality is that hypothetical Black Mage only cleared on the backs of better players putting in a greater effort then they were willing to. If everyone shared their mentality, they wouldn't meet the DPS check, no matter how generous. Therefore, why is it okay for players to essentially leech—queuing into content woefully above their skill level—yet players criticising them for doing so are "elitists"?

    Put another way. We all started off bad and/inexperienced at some point. Except some of us opted to learn how to improve. Why can't others if they want to attempt harder content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    Maybe players shouldnt be playing a game if they cant have fun without expecting people to be on their already INFLATED level, this is a video game, not a job, not something you do to please others and definitely not something that your self worth should depend on.
    If you are frustrated cuz someone is learning or is new, you are the problem for having severely unrealistic and false expectations and that is on you, if you treated this like a video game you wouldnt be having such problems.
    Your definition of fun isn't the holy grail. I'm not particularly keen having someone like the aforementioned Black Mage waste my time in Savage level content because they can't be bothered to put in any effort beyond the barest of minimums. It's disrespectful to upwards of seven other people who are attempting to clear say, E10S, but now have to deal with more mechanics they may otherwise have skipped or risk things like damage downs or repeated wipes due to someone having no idea what they're doing.

    And your now shifting the goal posts. We aren't talking about new players and you know it. People weren't demanding Skip Soar and whatnot in learning parties. Most people are far more accommodating in a learning party, provided you're there to learn the actual fight and not your job. It's when players who don't know their job join clear/farm/two chest players that upset people as they have business doing so.

    Scenarios like Mikey_R are not "extremely rare" if you frequent PF whatsoever. They are, in fact, quire common. Hence why it's been a continuous talking point for several years. Hell, I only just saw someone on stream who when told to upgrade their i500 weapon (last tier BiS), they promptly responded with "Why? Who cares?" This was in E11S, by the way. And with your logic, since they cleared they're above criticism despite using outdated gear.
    (10)
    Last edited by ForteNightshade; 03-19-2021 at 09:51 PM.
    "Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if honor matters."
    "The silence is your answer."


  9. #9
    Player
    Ralph2449's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    So a basic opener is inflated in an Extreme Trial fight? That's literally the barest of minimum expectations to have of anyone.
    Anyone=Elitist=/=Devs who design said fights

    Your desire to have above required dps for an encounter so you can skip mechanics pretty much proves that it is not the real minimum expectation, it is the inflated exception you created and you admitted this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    it's certainly annoying, worthy of being brought up
    Indeed, can you imagine having to stop dps at times to do mechanics? Truly a fate I would not wish to my worst enemy when their ego clearly depends on their dps
    /s
    No decently designed game requires perfect uptime and that includes the occasional times you have to move out cuz someone send a pool your way.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    And now we see you throwing "elitism" around for even the slightest disagreement. Not everyone wants to perform at the barest minimum and just "get by".
    You see, nobody would have a problem with people who "like to improve themselves" if some of said people werent obnoxious and tried to force their standards on others and thus influence their playstyle and the community with their own inflated requirements.

    I like to improve myself for my own sake, yet tryhards almost always will start demanding others do the same even when the dps is more than the minimum requirement and what is causing people problems is mechanic failures.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    If everyone shared their mentality, they wouldn't meet the DPS check
    And once again we see your elitism by your belief that if people arent religious tryhards they must not be good players or care about improving their performance, clearly anyone who speaks out about elitism must be a terrible player, it cant be that they are simply against elitism and your type of behavior and are more than happy to help others get through fights by having above average performance without expecting external sources to congratulate them and tell them how elite they are.


    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    what the devs intended is, frankly, irrelevant. The community decisions what standards exists.
    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    the community has spoken
    Ah yes, the tryhard elitists who know better than anyone should decide such things, like in WoW where people demand 226 gear for content that requires 200 and rewards 213 gear, that is wrong, the community, see elitists who like to tell others what to do and what is right always inflate requirements for their own benefit therefore the standards they create are false and shouldnt be given a second thought exactly because we know they are ridiculously inflated.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    players criticising them for doing so are "elitists"?
    "on the backs of better players"
    "If you aren't capable of doing so, you have no business joining."
    "perform at the barest minimum and just "get by""
    "for players to essentially leech—queuing into content woefully above their skill level"
    "some of us opted to learn how to improve"
    "they can't be bothered to put in any effort beyond the barest of minimums"
    "having no idea what they're doing"
    "players who don't know their job"

    Healthy people dont go around calling people leeches for not doing what you do or go around desperately inflating your own performance by calling people below it incapable/getting by and always implying that these "underperformers" are so bad they have no idea what they are doing, that is a very psychologically unhealthy attitude which not only is bad for you, it hurts the community and the game and therefore I will always be against it.

    Honestly your post was a perfect example of what I ve been saying in my posts about elitists, from your attitude to all the demeaning things you try to say about anyone not on your performance level.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    Your definition of fun isn't the holy grail.
    Because I did not define fun, that is based on the context, what I said was certain types of fun are unhealthy, wrong and lead to delusions which are a bad thing, hence my example of a player having fun 2 shoting people in pvp by playing a broken class, that feeling of "fun" is wrong, is not deserved and it is unhealthy because it leads to delusions.

    And I am absolutely not saying people should be forced to only be healthy and do good things, it is your life and it is your choice, but the line is drawn the moment your behavior is affecting others negatively, and tryhard elitists have been proven to ruin games and communities, best example being WoW and especially their latest xpac where that mentality of yours is everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    Scenarios like Mikey_R are not "extremely rare"
    Someone staying alive yet dealing 10% of their job's performance(Unless of course you go by some ridiculously inflated coordination heavy metric things like pink parses) and groups where literally everyone somehow is exactly at the minimum DEV based dps requirements, that scenario is extremely rare though I do know certain people like to exaggerate which is why I said people need to be honest with themselves, that person might as well have believed his own exaggeration to support his belief, it is still an exaggeration.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForteNightshade View Post
    they cleared they're above criticism despite using outdated gear.
    Another perfect example of tryhardism, god forbid you do the encounters without full bis which isnt need or required by actual dev standards,what's next, are you gonna get annoyed when people beat encounters with green-grey parses?
    (5)

  10. #10
    Player
    Mikey_R's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,533
    Character
    Mike Aettir
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph2449 View Post
    Someone staying alive yet dealing 10% of their job's performance(Unless of course you go by some ridiculously inflated coordination heavy metric things like pink parses) and groups where literally everyone somehow is exactly at the minimum DEV based dps requirements, that scenario is extremely rare though I do know certain people like to exaggerate which is why I said people need to be honest with themselves, that person might as well have believed his own exaggeration to support his belief, it is still an exaggeration.
    Yes, it was an exaggeration, but it was an exaggeration to try and amplify the problem to make it more pronounced and easier to identify, however, you have still missed the mark.

    Yes, encounters have a minimum performance on a per fight basis, however, the point I was trying to get across is, SE have a minimum criteria for each job in each fight, which is how they derive the minimum performance for a given fight. This means, each job and by extension the player using the job, has a minimum fight contribution that SE expects you to have to be able to clear the content.

    Yes, the group as a whole cleared the content, but that one person performing under what SE has calculated for a minimum performance, should they be allowed to clear by riding on the coat tails of the other party members who are performing higher than the minimum? This is the answer you have yet to give. They clearly are not skilled enough for the fight from a damage perspective, so should they even be running it?

    This is also why I gave the example of having a whole party that just meet the minimum requirements. The theory being if just one person doesn't perform to this minimum, the party as a whole will not clear.
    (3)

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