Skybuilder's tools (510 shiny)

[Doozer]

I would have to disagree with the reward part of it honestly. If they do continue to do this they need to make the relics actually worth a damn. Right now, they're trash, plain and simple. Aesthete's pentamelded is still superior and takes far less time to actually make/buy than grinding out a relic. The only reason to get a relic tool is if you don't want to go about pentamelding eight different tools and are happy with slightly sub-optimal stats. These things need to have materia slots on them to be any good, period.

And I know this is a matter of opinion, but I think they're trash glamour too. Save a couple, the designs are mostly boring simple designs you'd expect to see on a level 15 vendor tool, they're not dyeable, the glow does not extend to the bench (only ALC's does), and worst of all, they do not enlarge and hang on your back like the final-tier crafted tools always do. Like what's more impressive, a giant golden chainsaw on your back or a dinky little saw that hangs on your side and looks like a low level saw you'd buy in a starting city for a couple hundred gil? The lack of enlargement really hurts the smaller tools like LTW and GSM whose designs you can't even really see. I will admit the dragonscale effect is nice and having them glow when unsheathed instead of only while in use is a QoL upgrade, but the overall glow is less impressive than the blessed king glow so they don't even wow me there, either. Was pretty disappointed with literally every aspect of the relic, to be honest.

You really had to come to this person's thread saying "thanks for these relics" and just complain about every single detail?

Anyway, I also enjoy the look of the finished tools, though I'm disappointed that the complete version can't be dyed while some steps in between can. Unless I missed a step? Either way, it's pretty cool to have relics for crafters and gatherers. It requires putting in a lot more work than just gathering 180 unique items or something.

[Espritduo]

You really had to come to this person's thread saying "thanks for these relics" and just complain about every single detail?

Yes? I was giving MY honest opinion of the relics in a thread about the relics. Sorry it isn't 100% positive, but it's how I feel about them.

[Doozer]

Yes? I was giving MY honest opinion of the relics in a thread about the relics. Sorry it isn't 100% positive, but it's how I feel about them.

I just feel like if you absolutely had to give your feedback you could've been more constructive. The OP said they enjoy them and they're hoping SE does it again in the future, and you basically just marched in, threw everything they said in the trash, and set it on fire.

[Espritduo]

I just feel like if you absolutely had to give your feedback you could've been more constructive. The OP said they enjoy them and they're hoping SE does it again in the future, and you basically just marched in, threw everything they said in the trash, and set it on fire.

I did so because I DON'T want them to do this exactly the same way in the future. I gave constructive criticism in saying what they did wrong and what they should have done instead to make these things worthwhile to me. Sorry if dissenting opinions are forbidden around here and only super happy positive comments that agree with the TC are allowed.

[Doozer]

I did so because I DON'T want them to do this exactly the same way in the future. I gave constructive criticism in saying what they did wrong and what they should have done instead to make these things worthwhile to me. Sorry if dissenting opinions are forbidden around here and only super happy positive comments that agree with the TC are allowed.

Grow up.

You could've easily said, "I'm glad you like them, but I felt kind if disappointed by them, like how they don't compare stat-wise to other ones around the same ilevel, and the designs are kind of simple. If they do this type of thing again, I hope they consider things like this."

But instead you said, "the stats are trash, the glamour is trash, and they look cheap." Not constructive. Just treating your opinion like fact. And coming on to someone's post that was nothing but nice and acting like it was an invitation to dump on everything they said and say the thing they enjoy is garbage. Read the room, guy.

[Liam_Harper]

In this specific case, I can either use 20 step rotations be it on spec or non-spec. I can also drop tea/syrup from my rotation entirely and still reduce the step from 26 > 25.

As mentioned before we can do the same with max melded Aesthete by switching a single cheap meld. Personally I max melded my Aesthete because why wouldn't I? Crafting Materia has been a joke to obtain this expansion and I had so much stockpiled in advance at low effort that I even made a decent profit with the spares.
It's not that I disagree necessarily, I'm sure there are breakpoints for casual crafters that the extra craftmanship lets you reach, so the tools are superior for some players. But for me personally they're glamor and nothing else. So some players will feel they're not BiS, unlike DoW/M weapons which are 100% BiS for everyone at the last stage.

What I'm most interested to see is how they handle the Blessed tools. Because these are basically the blessed tools, tied to a bland grind with almost no story and handed over to the playerbase. If they scrapped the Blessed tools for this I'd be disappointed.

I agree with Espiritduo's opinion on them being poor glamour. The glow isn't bad and it's nice they glow while unsheathed, but the base tools feel like incredibly lazy design. I'd like to see them focus on a unique base design next time too. They can be quite imaginative with weapons, so try something similar here.

I disliked the first steps but I did like that they incorporated Experts at the end. That's a positive.

Grow up.

Take your own advice. You've been hacking away at someone's opinion just because it wasn't positive enough for you. We can fully respect that others are happy but still don't have to like the tools.

[Kaurhz]

snip

As I have also said, that entirely depends on your preexisting build. Like I said; when you look at it in a vacuum. Just because you can meet the requirement for it on Aesthete's by swapping a singular meld, that does not necessarily reign true for all builds, hence the vacuum. 2701/2837/554 (My pre-existing stats; also max melded btw - Also wasn't necessary to discussion) is more than a cut above 1 simple meld swap, as is 2693. My argument was that you shouldn't dismiss the potential benefit of it on the basis of insufficient research or consideration of your pre-existing stats. This just comes down to if you have them and not meet the stats then it's a tangible benefit over Aesthete's, this has always been my argument. hence vacuum, and how far alongside the progression you are. If someone has 2693~ Craftsmanship and is calling the tools crap, whilst being equipped with Aesthete's, and having Skybuilder's tools stored, then I'm going to laugh at them and call them wrong, simple as. My friend sat on 2755/2815/554? I tell them to just stick with Aesthete's tool as it doesn't lead to them having any real benefit since they already hit the most meaningful breakpoints.

We've had this selfsame discussion and it'll lead to the same result; this. Whether they're good or not is 1 thing, whether you should grind them exclusively for the aforementioned benefit is something entirely different. If you stuck with it, well done, it's more than likely a free upgrade as well as some fairly 'inexpensive' glamour, if you didn't, then that's unfortunate.

As per the topic regarding them being BiS, you can't really establish in the first place anyway, simply because crafting has several methods of achieving the same goal, thus it comes down to personal preference. Do I rock 2735 and 20 step it with tea/syrup? Or do I rock 2746 and 25 step it without tea/syrup? Or do I go for something equally as effective? Again, several methods of achieving the same goal, all equally as effective, just to name a few. Expecting something truly meaningful with these tools is just simply setting your expectation too high.

I'm still curious regarding their Blessed Tools, if I'm being frank I would take the relics over the Blessed Tools, simply because for a lot of players the grind to get caught up with the Blessed Tools is still quite a monumental, and boring grind. Once you're caught up with it then it isn't too bad to keep up with it.

Personally, I prefer the Skybuilder's Tools over Blessed in terms of Aesthetic, but of course, subjectivity.

[Doozer]

Take your own advice. You've been hacking away at someone's opinion just because it wasn't positive enough for you. We can fully respect that others are happy but still don't have to like the tools.

Well, if they're allowed to stomp around and treat their opinions like fact, I'm allowed to continue to "hack away" at someone's opinion. There's a difference between "positive enough" and respecting the person you're disagreeing with enough to not act like you're right and they're wrong just because you're negative about it. It's possible to state an opinion without looking like a toddler throwing a tantrum. I also never said they have to like it. If you're going to do some strawman, don't bother even quoting me.

[DynnDiablos]

Yes? I was giving MY honest opinion of the relics in a thread about the relics. Sorry it isn't 100% positive, but it's how I feel about them.

Last time I checked, he wasn't asking for your personal opinion.

[Deithwen]

Last time I checked, he wasn't asking for your personal opinion.

How dare you respond to a public topic on a discussion forum! What? You even gave your opinion on something? So rude!