Skybuilder's tools (510 shiny)

[Jojoya]

They're good at being exactly what they are - the DoH/DoL equivalent to the combat relics. Shiny tools for people who like shiny things but not game changing in any meaningful way.

The big disappointment is we weren't give the ability to customize them, unlike relic weapons, and that meant wasting a lot of time and materia remelding gear before they became more useful than what we already had. Something that's promoted as being BiS should feel like BiS the moment it goes into your hand and these didn't.

[Liam_Harper]

In this specific case, I can either use 20 step rotations be it on spec or non-spec. I can also drop tea/syrup from my rotation entirely and still reduce the step from 26 > 25.

As mentioned before we can do the same with max melded Aesthete by switching a single cheap meld. Personally I max melded my Aesthete because why wouldn't I? Crafting Materia has been a joke to obtain this expansion and I had so much stockpiled in advance at low effort that I even made a decent profit with the spares.
It's not that I disagree necessarily, I'm sure there are breakpoints for casual crafters that the extra craftmanship lets you reach, so the tools are superior for some players. But for me personally they're glamor and nothing else. So some players will feel they're not BiS, unlike DoW/M weapons which are 100% BiS for everyone at the last stage.

What I'm most interested to see is how they handle the Blessed tools. Because these are basically the blessed tools, tied to a bland grind with almost no story and handed over to the playerbase. If they scrapped the Blessed tools for this I'd be disappointed.

I agree with Espiritduo's opinion on them being poor glamour. The glow isn't bad and it's nice they glow while unsheathed, but the base tools feel like incredibly lazy design. I'd like to see them focus on a unique base design next time too. They can be quite imaginative with weapons, so try something similar here.

I disliked the first steps but I did like that they incorporated Experts at the end. That's a positive.

Grow up.

Take your own advice. You've been hacking away at someone's opinion just because it wasn't positive enough for you. We can fully respect that others are happy but still don't have to like the tools.

[Kaurhz]

snip

As I have also said, that entirely depends on your preexisting build. Like I said; when you look at it in a vacuum. Just because you can meet the requirement for it on Aesthete's by swapping a singular meld, that does not necessarily reign true for all builds, hence the vacuum. 2701/2837/554 (My pre-existing stats; also max melded btw - Also wasn't necessary to discussion) is more than a cut above 1 simple meld swap, as is 2693. My argument was that you shouldn't dismiss the potential benefit of it on the basis of insufficient research or consideration of your pre-existing stats. This just comes down to if you have them and not meet the stats then it's a tangible benefit over Aesthete's, this has always been my argument. hence vacuum, and how far alongside the progression you are. If someone has 2693~ Craftsmanship and is calling the tools crap, whilst being equipped with Aesthete's, and having Skybuilder's tools stored, then I'm going to laugh at them and call them wrong, simple as. My friend sat on 2755/2815/554? I tell them to just stick with Aesthete's tool as it doesn't lead to them having any real benefit since they already hit the most meaningful breakpoints.

We've had this selfsame discussion and it'll lead to the same result; this. Whether they're good or not is 1 thing, whether you should grind them exclusively for the aforementioned benefit is something entirely different. If you stuck with it, well done, it's more than likely a free upgrade as well as some fairly 'inexpensive' glamour, if you didn't, then that's unfortunate.

As per the topic regarding them being BiS, you can't really establish in the first place anyway, simply because crafting has several methods of achieving the same goal, thus it comes down to personal preference. Do I rock 2735 and 20 step it with tea/syrup? Or do I rock 2746 and 25 step it without tea/syrup? Or do I go for something equally as effective? Again, several methods of achieving the same goal, all equally as effective, just to name a few. Expecting something truly meaningful with these tools is just simply setting your expectation too high.

I'm still curious regarding their Blessed Tools, if I'm being frank I would take the relics over the Blessed Tools, simply because for a lot of players the grind to get caught up with the Blessed Tools is still quite a monumental, and boring grind. Once you're caught up with it then it isn't too bad to keep up with it.

Personally, I prefer the Skybuilder's Tools over Blessed in terms of Aesthetic, but of course, subjectivity.

[Doozer]

Take your own advice. You've been hacking away at someone's opinion just because it wasn't positive enough for you. We can fully respect that others are happy but still don't have to like the tools.

Well, if they're allowed to stomp around and treat their opinions like fact, I'm allowed to continue to "hack away" at someone's opinion. There's a difference between "positive enough" and respecting the person you're disagreeing with enough to not act like you're right and they're wrong just because you're negative about it. It's possible to state an opinion without looking like a toddler throwing a tantrum. I also never said they have to like it. If you're going to do some strawman, don't bother even quoting me.

[Deceptus]

I would have to disagree with the reward part of it honestly. If they do continue to do this they need to make the relics actually worth a damn. Right now, they're trash, plain and simple. Aesthete's pentamelded is still superior and takes far less time to actually make/buy than grinding out a relic. The only reason to get a relic tool is if you don't want to go about pentamelding eight different tools and are happy with slightly sub-optimal stats. These things need to have materia slots on them to be any good, period.

Pretty much this. The current relic step is totally unbalance in reward vs time. Each relic requires a minimum of 2700 yellow scrips (max 5400) EACH coupled with time in the Diadem vs less than an hour for the Aesthete's which can be penta melded to be better.

But that has sadly been the story of relics in Shadowbringers. Reward vs time invested has been completely unbalanced. There has to be some middle ground between braindead easy vs Korean level grind. That's what the players want. A middle ground.

Relic is supposed to be casual. The last step of this relic requires an EXPERT level craft which is the hardest crafting content in the game.

It's akin to requiring savage raiding for the DoW/DoM relics

The fact that the crafter relics don't have at least 2 meld slots (should be 5) is bad.

The fact that we STILL don't have a better fishing gig that the level 61 version is bad. This would have been the perfect time to upgrade it.

[Kaurhz]

Pretty much this. The current relic step is totally unbalance in reward vs time. Each relic requires a minimum of 2700 yellow scrips (max 5400) EACH coupled with time in the Diadem vs less than an hour for the Aesthete's which can be penta melded to be better.

Relic is supposed to be casual. The last step of this relic requires an EXPERT level craft which is the hardest crafting content in the game.

It's akin to requiring savage raiding for the DoW/DoM relics

The fact that the crafter relics don't have at least 2 meld slots (should be 5) is bad.

The fact that we STILL don't have a better fishing gig that the level 61 version is bad. This would have been the perfect time to upgrade it.

Except getting a pentamelded Aesthete's tool to do what you would consider as 'outclass' the relic requires an approximate sum of:
Yellow Crafters' Scrip x80,750 or approximately 10,093~ Yellow Crafters' Scrip per tool
+
White Crafters' Scrip x28,000 or approximately 3500~ White Crafters' Scrip per tool.

Getting all of the above to pentameld your tools isn't exactly an hour journey. Next time factor the time of getting the materia in your comparison tbh.

The necessary breakpoints which you must hit during the Expert recipes are relatively lenient to compensate for the fact they are indeed Expert recipes. These are barely akin to running Hades extreme at iLv510. Not even an inconvenience even at all. Besides, these tools are quite good in their own right, it's only right they make you do something tedious aside from hit a macro and be done with it. I'm down for them adding 5-materia slots, but only at the expense of it being excruciatingly more tedious/difficult. The minimum quality you need is, what, 24,000?

[Vickii]

I have some thoughts.

1) I thought and think it’s best in slot, although marginally. If you’re saying it’s not, it’s still pretty irrelevant at this point. You can literally make anything in the game with it and it will carry through until the end of next expansion.

2) it’s very good looking. However I’m disappointed no dye option for the final stage as the other stages had it. Still hoping one final fix for this. But it’s a cute weapon and the glow is nice.

3) I was a bit underwhelmed by the quest line personally. I felt tying weaver, fisher and botanist into essentially the exact same thing didn’t really feel epic. I felt it was too much of ‘get 80 of this’ now ‘get 160 of this’. I kept hoping they’d change the formula and was glad when they added in collectibles and expert crafts but overall it was more monotonous grind than it was fun. The quest itself didn’t really feel epic in anyway, it was just kinda ‘we’re going to make a great tool’. I was hoping it would be more themed around restoring ishgard.

4) despite this I did really like the idea and do hope they continue with it. I really would like more separation between land and hand at least though. They kinda got this with the crust around quests and it’s a shame it didn’t really carry over to the relic.

[Vickii]

I have some thoughts.

1) I thought and think it’s best in slot, although marginally. If you’re saying it’s not, it’s still pretty irrelevant at this point. You can literally make anything in the game with it and it will carry through until the end of next expansion.

2) it’s very good looking. However I’m disappointed no dye option for the final stage as the other stages had it. Still hoping one final fix for this. But it’s a cute weapon and the glow is nice.

3) I was a bit underwhelmed by the quest line personally. I felt tying weaver, fisher and botanist into essentially the exact same thing didn’t really feel epic. I felt it was too much of ‘get 80 of this’ now ‘get 160 of this’. I kept hoping they’d change the formula and was glad when they added in collectibles and expert crafts but overall it was more monotonous grind than it was fun. The quest itself didn’t really feel epic in anyway, it was just kinda ‘we’re going to make a great tool’. I was hoping it would be more themed around restoring ishgard.

4) despite this I did really like the idea and do hope they continue with it. I really would like more separation between land and hand at least though. They kinda got this with the crust around quests and it’s a shame it didn’t really carry over to the relic.

*with the crystarium quests

[Vickii]

Relic is supposed to be casual. The last step of this relic requires an EXPERT level craft which is the hardest crafting content in the game.

It's akin to requiring savage raiding for the DoW/DoM relics.

It’s a low level expert recipe you have to make, the one from an early stage of ishgard restoration which with current gear is very easy. It’s not comparable to the latest expert recipe in difficulty. Technically it’s probably the third/fourth hardest recipe in the game, but if you have the gear it can be macrod and if you don’t have the gear you don’t need this.

Also the DOW/DOM relics up to now, asides from SB, required extreme trials which is pretty much a fair comparison. This is probably easier for a crafter with decent gear to get than doing extreme Ifrit back in ARR honestly.

Relic is supposed to be accessible, not casual. Big difference. They do seem to be going that way with the current DOW/DOM relic, but all others actually required you to be fairly decent when done at level (doing the anima relic today isn’t the same thing).

[LaughingBanana]

I would have to disagree with the reward part of it honestly. If they do continue to do this they need to make the relics actually worth a damn. Right now, they're trash, plain and simple. Aesthete's pentamelded is still superior and takes far less time to actually make/buy than grinding out a relic. The only reason to get a relic tool is if you don't want to go about pentamelding eight different tools and are happy with slightly sub-optimal stats. These things need to have materia slots on them to be any good, period.

And I know this is a matter of opinion, but I think they're trash glamour too. Save a couple, the designs are mostly boring simple designs you'd expect to see on a level 15 vendor tool, they're not dyeable, the glow does not extend to the bench (only ALC's does), and worst of all, they do not enlarge and hang on your back like the final-tier crafted tools always do. Like what's more impressive, a giant golden chainsaw on your back or a dinky little saw that hangs on your side and looks like a low level saw you'd buy in a starting city for a couple hundred gil? The lack of enlargement really hurts the smaller tools like LTW and GSM whose designs you can't even really see. I will admit the dragonscale effect is nice and having them glow when unsheathed instead of only while in use is a QoL upgrade, but the overall glow is less impressive than the blessed king glow so they don't even wow me there, either. Was pretty disappointed with literally every aspect of the relic, to be honest.

I just want to say that I find it weird some people are treating this response as if you're trying to "burn" the OP or that you need to "grow up" or whatever. You disagreed, you explained why, and you also clarified that it is only a matter of opinion that the glamor are not good as well.

Weird how something as mild as your post are viewed as confrontational, I mean, huh...?