Paladin button consolidation for 6.0

[AvernusTyrfing]

You seem to be under the impression I'm asking for a change in these skills.
Which I'm not.
You use Shelltron on only yourself.
You use cover and Intervention only on NOT yourself.
Why not double up?

Shelltron
Used on you: Shelltron
Used on ally: either the effect of cover or intervention (whichever they'd wish to consolidate).

But you are asking for a change, merging those two skills IS a change to how they would work. Merging Sheltron and Intervention would not only need them to rework how both skills work, they would also need to rework the animation for it.

And besides, there simply is no way to merge Cover with Sheltron without drastically changing how Cover works.

[ArianeEwah]

But you are asking for a change, merging those two skills IS a change to how they would work. Merging Sheltron and Intervention would not only need them to rework how both skills work, they would also need to rework the animation for it.

And besides, there simply is no way to merge Cover with Sheltron without drastically changing how Cover works.

I don't think you got what "merging buttons" actually means! Merging a button of 2 separate actions doesn't change the effects of the actions, but the button triggers the effect of those actions under certain circumstances. In this case: if you target an ally with "button Sheltron" it triggers the effect of Intervention; if no target or an enemy is selected, the button triggers the effect of Sheltron. You don't need to change the effects of an action just to merge buttons!

[ItMe]

I disagree on merging Sheltron and Intervention nor Cover, and here is why:

Having multiple actions targeting an ally, and at least one of them having a "on yourself" or "on party member" effect, may cause the wrong effect to trigger when using another in succession. i.e. if you want to cover your partner, and Sheltron on yourself, it will end up being cover + intervention which is then wasted!

Ofc this issue doesn't affect other tanks because they only have 1 ability each that can target allies: WAR-Nascent Flash, DRK-TBN, GNB-Heart of Stone. Warriors Nascent Flash CAN also be targeted on self, but the effect is the same if you target an ally. Nevertheless, should your "tethered partner" die during Nascent Flash, both Nascent Glint and Nascent Flash effects will be lost, but I guess this is just a programming problem, intended or not.

That's totally fair, and perhaps I was just not being clear, but I don't mean to suggest you put cover AND intervention as secondary effects on Shelltron.
I'm saying they could put EITHER as secondary effects.
I agree, they are unique and distinctly useful enough that I wouldn't want cover and intervention merged.
Personally I'd prefer Intervention as its effect (mitigation) is more in line with Shelltron's (mitigation) than cover (redirect incoming damage).

I don't think you got what "merging buttons" actually means! Merging a button of 2 separate actions doesn't change the effects of the actions, but the button triggers the effect of those actions under certain circumstances. In this case: if you target an ally with "button Sheltron" it triggers the effect of Intervention; if no target or an enemy is selected, the button triggers the effect of Sheltron. You don't need to change the effects of an action just to merge buttons!

Exactly.
Thank you for clearing this up~

[ArianeEwah]

That's totally fair, and perhaps I was just not being clear, but I don't mean to suggest you put cover AND intervention as secondary effects on Shelltron.
I'm saying they could put EITHER as secondary effects.

That's how I did understand your suggestion. The issue I am seeing here is when you use both actions at the same time/double weave (for whatever reason) i.e. Sheltron button has both Sheltron and Intervention effect (would make most sense since they have the same CD), you use Cover (Cover is Cover) on your ally and then you want to use Sheltron, but end up using Intervention instead. The reason for this can be whatever: Missclick, too slow to change target (and we know how good targeting system in FF14 works, lol), or even lag.

So, unless absolutely necessary (because of button bloat) I would advise against merging them to prevent such situations.

Exactly.
Thank you for clearing this up~

You're welcome

[ItMe]

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I see...
Hmm... these are things I hadn't considered.
While I'm not really concerned with how something like this might not play nicely with macros, I think you two have changed my mind on keeping Shelltron and Intervention separate.

[AvernusTyrfing]

I get that, perhaps i didn't make myself clear on what i was thinking about. (Was still a bit asleep back then). Aodhan above explained it a lot better than i did, it would end up being more effort than what is worth.

Either way, i really don't think a merge of Sheltron/Intervention is a good thing. For an example, myself and a couple of friends who play paladin use intervention with a <t> <2> macro for convenience, but if both were merged we would still end up with another button anyway (A <2> macro). It ends up not changing anything.