Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Lauront]

I think it can be both, actually. WoW got a lot of positive feedback both times they enhanced their CC, many people even went back to the game mostly because of it and the restriction lift from the allied races, rather than the game itself. It's true new races and overall customizations are just aesthetics, as opposed to stuff that affect gameplay/content, but it'd be a lie to say they don't leave a lasting impact on the audience's perception of the game too - Female Au Ra is the second most popular option even today, and even Hrothgars, despite having a smaller fanbase, all but made Roes go extinct.

Agreed, I don't think you can really over-state the potential benefits fresher visuals could yield. Yes, they come at a cost, but the game is something like 10 years old now, and it's beginning to look and feel dated, even in comparison to other MMOs - several of which have been sprucing up their visuals. With that said, it depends on whether they're going to bite the bullet and engage in the high res texture asset conversion, which they had said in the past would e.g. entail a reduction in gear output. Given that we've seen cuts in some of the more graphically intense content during the course of SHB, e.g. reductions in dungeons, I do wonder if this might be what they're doing behind the scenes.

[Yencat]

While updated customization/visuals and male Viera and female Hrothgar would definitely be good for the game in general and I hope they do either or both, I don't see why the future success of the game hinges on these things.

ShB was by all accounts very successful and well received despite being light on customization and introducing the 2 most limited races in the game, who got shouted down at almost every turn when they dared to open their mouths about the limitations.

WoW did some really cool things with their CC recently, but we also have to remember they were literally dragging it into modern times from the stone ages. Even after the revamp in 2014-ish all the way up until Shadowlands pre-patch you couldn't even do something as basic as choose your own eye colour, every feature was tied to the face you picked and couldn't be customized.

Allied races are a nice feature but also incredibly hit & miss, Nightborne especially. I believe they're going on year 4 of having only 6 hairstyles and 3 skin colors now?

This is not to crap on WoW and defend XIV at all because I have plenty of complaints myself and XIV's CC and textures are starting to show their age and could definitely see a ton of improvements, but it's really not that bad to the point it harms the game I think? Hrothgar hair-to-face fiasco excluded of course, that's a whole mess.

Compared to something like BDO it's pretty terrible sure, but it's never gonna be that.

[Lauront]

Success is a relative and goal-specific term. For example, do they want to maintain current sub levels, or keep increasing them, or what? Regardless of what you take it to mean, it will depend on what the marketplace looks like a few years forward. Right now it's hard to fathom another MMO (or even quasi-MMO) unseating it, and the game is successful enough to draw in a steady, safe flow of profit for SE. If they want the game to continue pulling in more subs, or even maintain current levels, that's something that may require sprucing up the visuals in the face of competition and I think this factor will weigh more heavily as the game continues to age and alternatives begin to appear.

[Fukuro]

My main hope is that the reason 5.0 is light on content is due to major features being worked on in the background. I guess we'll see if that's the case or not if the announcement showcase in February reveals as much.

I just hope the „major features being worked on“ doesn’t mean the resources went only to ff16 )
i‘m hyped for 16, but i wouldn‘t want to see 14 suffer because the focus was mainly on 16. with yoshida being the producer for 16, im pretty sure he brought in some developers from 14.

i know i might be just looking too much into this, but ff16 being in development and 5.0‘being a bit lighter in content gave me reasons to be a little concerned.

[Yencat]

Success is a relative and goal-specific term. For example, do they want to maintain current sub levels, or keep increasing them, or what? Regardless of what you take it to mean, it will depend on what the marketplace looks like a few years forward. Right now it's hard to fathom another MMO (or even quasi-MMO) unseating it, and the game is successful enough to draw in a steady, safe flow of profit for SE. If they want the game to continue pulling in more subs, or even maintain current levels, that's something that may require sprucing up the visuals in the face of competition and I think this factor will weigh more heavily as the game continues to age and alternatives begin to appear.

They might want to increase sub numbers, but would they actually increase with improved textures or CC? How about after fixing the glamour system or housing? And how much would it cost to do these things vs. how much much it benefits them?

As much as we may hate it they might figure people are still buying the expansions and subbing despite them remaining rather rigid on these issues, so why throw a bunch of money at fixing them for questionable gain?

I also really hope they're looking into these things (I hope they're already working on them, actually) but sometimes it feels like they're intent on riding this game until the wheels fall off before they'd make drastic/expensive changes.

I suppose it all ties back to the feeling of whether or not the game is getting the resources it needs/deserves, but only they know that for sure.

[LisSquid]

If they want the game to continue pulling in more subs, or even maintain current levels, that's something that may require sprucing up the visuals in the face of competition and I think this factor will weigh more heavily as the game continues to age and alternatives begin to appear.

I used to think customization and visuals were key to the health of a game, too. Runescape really did prove me wrong so I happily don my clown shoes about that. Also, new races and visuals were never the reason for a huge jump in subs on WoW. It was ALWAYS classes.

If someone is shopping for an mmo, what is going to be the one thing they look at first? It's going to be how their interact with the world. Visuals and cool races are important, but if you just do not get excited about any of the jobs FF has to offer, then why would you start? Just being a cat girl is not enough for most people. Like me! I only gave FF a shot because I saw astrologian in the HW promo and was in love.

New players are going to be content with things as they are cosmetically. The longer you play, the more you want some variety and sprucing up of your game of choice. Adding new customization is for player retention, not getting new subs.

[Allegor]

I used to think customization and visuals were key to the health of a game, too. Runescape really did prove me wrong so I happily don my clown shoes about that. Also, new races and visuals were never the reason for a huge jump in subs on WoW. It was ALWAYS classes.

Wrong. Both of their major graphic/CC updates happened in WoD and Shadowlands, expansions that didn't introduce new classes or races.

That said, you're also right, cosmetics and visual quality attracts people at a glance, gameplay and content makes them keep playing. Using WoW as an example again, even though WoD updated all playable character models, BfA introduced 10 "new" races, and Shadowlands made a major overhaul to the CC, the gameplay on the former 2 was simply poop and couldn't retain players past the first few months [Shadowlands is way too new to say if it's a flop or not yet] and even then, it could very well vary on the person

The very first time I played I didn't find even Roes that attractive, and pretty much fell asleep leveling in Gridania, didn't even reach lv 15 [this was probably 1.0 or somewhere in 2.0] ...but then like 3 years ago the bf wanted to try and I begrudgingly agreed and would you look at that, I actually got engaged to the game this time, the story, the cinematic, the characters, AST and RDM were now added, and my enjoyment only increased when Hrothgar and DNC were added in ShB.

[LisSquid]

Wrong. Both of their major graphic/CC updates happened in WoD and Shadowlands, expansions that didn't introduce new classes or races.

WoD didn't see any significant increase in subs, it actually bled them, and Shadowlands is still an open study at the moment. You know which expansion did see significantly more new subs? Legion. Demon Hunters printed money, the same way DKs did back in Wrath.

I'm not entirely sure how FFXIV is doing on retaining ShB subs, but covid has been very good for mmo populations.

Back on topic: I'm hesitant to say we'll see any significant features added in 6.0. Maybe 6.1? If m viera and f hrothgar are on the table then I think the canary in the coalmine would be to see them roll out major customization updates for the races we have. It will mean they are putting resources into player models, which would make me hopeful that they are getting closer to the top of the "to-do" list.

[Styrmwyda]

IMO, if they do add male Viera they should be shorter than female Viera, a sort of inverse of the sexual dimorphism in Au Ra.

[Allegor]

WoD didn't see any significant increase in subs, it actually bled them, and Shadowlands is still an open study at the moment. You know which expansion did see significantly more new subs? Legion. Demon Hunters printed money, the same way DKs did back in Wrath.

WoD saw a substantial increase in subs, it just happened to pummel harder than a rock in water after the first quarter because the expansion as a whole was barren of content aside from raiding and looking prettier, whereas Legion, aside from getting a new class, did several positive changes and adjustments to the game itself, which is why I said you're right, looks alone won't keep people playing after the first impression, but that's not to say they don't matter at all either. But yeah, tomayto tomahto

I don't have exact numbers but I'm fairly certain if Hroth and Viera didn't had their limitations, their player count would be considerably higher, since the hat issue is the main reason most people seem to give for switching back to their previous race. If the other genders aren't added, I hope at the very least they address the hairstyles issues and add more - it's been a year and a half and we haven't seen as much as concept art.