Is anyon else tired of Ascians story?

[Lium]

The game's Ascians story was a bit interesting, but we already got to the point where it is tired, is like the creators ran out of ideas.
I would love to see other more creative stories.

Not really. Considering that...

...we are an Ascian as well.

So, unless that gets retconned, Ascians are here to stay in some form until the game is shut down.

[Kesey]

Not really. Considering that...

...we are an Ascian as well.

So, unless that gets retconned, Ascians are here to stay in some form until the game is shut down.

I think you have misunderstood the what makes an "Ascian". Although like the Ascians, the WOL is a reincarnated Ancient soul, but very much unlike the Ascians, the WOL is not tempered to Zodiark. It's the latter that makes you an "Ascian," not the former.

But the issue with Ascians being here to stay is really a plurality problem. There are at least 13 of them, and we've only put about half of them to the sword. There will always be more of them for the foreseeable future.

[Veloran]

but very much unlike the Ascians, the WOL is not tempered to Zodiark. It's the latter that makes you an "Ascian," not the former.

We have no real evidence that the sundered Ascians are tempered. Fandaniel's behavior would suggest just the opposite, really.

[Lumivyory]

We have no real evidence that the sundered Ascians are tempered. Fandaniel's behavior would suggest just the opposite, really.

Didn't Emet at some point mention that "of course" Zodiark tempered them as he's a primal? Can't remember the full original sentence from him though so can't say for sure if he meant only the unsundered or every Ascian.

[Kesey]

We have no real evidence that the sundered Ascians are tempered. Fandaniel's behavior would suggest just the opposite, really.

There is no real evidence that they are not tempered. Emet stated they were. That being said, he can be seen as an unreliable source.

Furthermore, I'm not sure we can take a villain (Fandaniel) who has had 4 scenes of screen time as proof he isn't tempered. What we can take from his limited screen time is that is up to something bigger, and that clearly involves Zodiark, so even though this isn't the best evidence, how can say you he definitively isn't tempered?

[Hatfright]

There is no real evidence that they are not tempered. Emet stated they were. That being said, he can be seen as an unreliable source.

I took it as the Convocation was tempered, before the whole Hydaelyn stuff. We can't be sure if fragments of the once tempered soul stays tempered after the sundering or not. After Eden I'd say it's more in favor of "no, they're not". That, of course, if Emet was saying the truth about them being tempered in the first place.

[Veloran]

how can say you he definitively isn't tempered?

I said his behavior suggests he isn't tempered. First because he's positively elated at the idea that Elidibus is dead, as it means he's now free to do whatever he wants, if he was tempered obviously he'd be bound to Zodiark still. Secondly, because his stated motivations and goals aren't compatible with serving Zodiark, as he just intends to cause as much death as possible and then die himself.

Unsundered Ascians are tempered, but question remains if sundering or rebirth canceled the tempering for others.

We can very definitively say that it does. Random people aren't born tempered to ancient Primals, and Gaia is a pretty explicit subject case showing that the sundered souls of the Convocation members didn't just stay tempered after their deaths. Emet himself is also very indicative of this given that as he reappeared from the Lifestream, he directly worked against Elidibus and therefore Zodiark by saving WoL during the Seat of Sacrifice, suggesting that his soul is no longer tempered either.

The question then becomes, are the sundered Ascians tempered, and if so, how? The current state of Zodiark is pretty up in the air, and it's very arguable as to whether or not whatever current existence he has is capable of tempering anyone. Since the sundered can't have remained tempered from his original summoning like the the Unsundered, given they all died, how could it have happened to them?
Looking at the sundered in the recent story, we kind of have the indication that they aren't tempered at all. Fandaniel I talked about before, but the more pertinent case is probably Mitron. His goals in Eden have nothing whatsoever to do with Zodiark, and in fact directly oppose the Ascian's plans relating to him. Condensing all time down into a single moment to live out eternity with the woman he loved is really not advancing the cause of Zodiark in any regard.

I think, and this is just my theory as the game doesn't spell it out in so many words, but Ryne doesn't have the echo like Minfillia had because she did, she'd be able to travel back and forth between the source and 1st like the WOL does.

It's not the Echo that allows WoL to do that, it was being successfully summoned by G'raha.

[Kesey]

snip.

The over joy at the death of Elidibus is that Fandaniel doesn't have to be loyal to resurrecting Amaurot and his Ancient past. Not that he's been freed from Zodiark. And the whole I want everyone to die and die myself is pretty theatric, just like how he acts in front of Zenos. We haven't seen his true nature.

You're right people aren't born tempered to primals, but the Ascians have a further step where they use the soul crystals that instill past memories to raise you up to an Ascian. If Ascians are tempered to Zodiark, as Emet said, then this is most logical place the "tempering" happens.

Also, when Emet helps the WOL with the Elidibus fight, it's for the sake of Elidibus, not the WOL. Emet once mused what Elidibus would be like when he was gone and that it would be a bad time for him. Emet wants his friend to find rest, not repeat the crazy primal mind washing without the unsundered's guidence. Which really isn't against Zodiark, as one of the other remaining Ascians can get the rejoining, genocide the world population and resurrect Emet and Elidibus as per the original plan.

The echo lets the WOL cross back and forth between shards. If Ryne had the echo like Minfillia, then she would be capable of the same thing, even if the summoning spell was needed in the first place. They purposefully didn't give Ryne Minfillia's echo so they didn't have to explore the plot point of her wanting to go the source with the other Scions.

[Veloran]

The over joy at the death of Elidibus is that Fandaniel doesn't have to be loyal to resurrecting Amaurot and his Ancient past. Not that he's been freed from Zodiark. And the whole I want everyone to die and die myself is pretty theatric, just like how he acts in front of Zenos. We haven't seen his true nature.

He specifically says he's free from his "damnable duty" and that now he's "free at last to live for the moment". It's a very narrow interpretation to say that can only be referring to resurrecting Amaurot.

You're right people aren't born tempered to primals, but the Ascians have a further step where they use the soul crystals that instill past memories to raise you up to an Ascian. If Ascians are tempered to Zodiark, as Emet said, then this is most logical place the "tempering" happens.

To give memories yes, we're never told this changes the very nature of their souls like tempering does. In fact it's not even their own memories, it's memories the Unsundered had of them, so I really don't see how they could be tempered just by using that to awaken memories. Again, it appears from both Mitron and Gaia this isn't the case.

Also, when Emet helps the WOL with the Elidibus fight, it's for the sake of Elidibus, not the WOL. Emet once mused what Elidibus would be like when he was gone and that it would be a bad time for him. Emet wants his friend to find rest, not repeat the crazy primal mind washing without the unsundered's guidence. Which really isn't against Zodiark, as one of the other remaining Ascians can get the rejoining, genocide the world population and resurrect Emet and Elidibus as per the original plan.

This is some really extreme mental gymnastics to try and avoid the fact that Emet saved the life of Hydaelyn's champion and one of Zodiark's biggest enemies so that you could defeat Zodiark's last remaining primary servant and his once-heart. It's all well and good that Emet was doing it to end the suffering of his friend but that doesn't change the fact that he was acting directly against Zodiark. You can't just say he was able to think "well whatever someone else will do it" and so suddenly he remains tempered but it doesn't affect his choices or actions at all, that just renders tempering completely irrelevant from the outset as long as someone can vaguely justify something in their head.

The echo lets the WOL cross back and forth between shards. If Ryne had the echo like Minfillia, then she would be capable of the same thing, even if the summoning spell was needed in the first place. They purposefully didn't give Ryne Minfillia's echo so they didn't have to explore the plot point of her wanting to go the source with the other Scions.

WoL can cross back and forth because G'raha summoned him. Cylva and Unukalhai can cross because they're effectively bodiless spirits like the Ascians. Gaia can potentially cross but she'd need to lose her flesh in the process like the WoDs and Ascians, the same as Ryne would even if she were to have the Echo.