Please Remove Role Skills and Give Them Back as Class/Job Abilities

[ADVSS]

This is actually one more example for role skills to be removed. Each tank has a gap closer but they all look unique to their jobs despite their same function. WAR's is definitely funky in execution and could stand to be looked at but it would remove some flair/job flavor if these skills were watered down into an identical ability. Gone would be DRKs mighty plunging animation and PLD's shield charge.

Well they took all of DRK's kit away, why not finish it off with their most iconic ability that no other tanks had when it debuted. We'll even just call the cross role skill Plunge, because why not? /s

Nah I totally agree with you though, and I've literally warmed up to OP suggestion, they already have the unique animations, just keep them as is. Also I want freaking shadowskin back. I miss DRK old sith lord sound effects. Cant even sound like copyright enfringement sith knight anymore and it sucks
i mean i know powerman 5000 was all pissed about Sephirots theme song and all, but Dsny can pound sand.

[Limonia]

Personally, I really love the idea of giving different jobs different animations for the role skills. Some of the old animations were nice, and fit thematically with its job.

About the names and icons though, I think it would be too convoluted if ALL of them have different names and icons. Especially for new players or those that aren't very good with names.

My solution would be for simple utility skills like Rescue, Surecast, Shirk or True North to keep its current icon and name across all jobs that have them, BUT a unique animation (from old, now unused animations).
Others that are more than that, like Second Wind or Rampart, could get the same treatment as Tactitian/Shield Samba/whatever BRD's defense buff was called, with a unique animation AND unique name/icon.

[Lyth]

The present role system is just a cost saving measure, nothing more. Rather than design unique animations for different jobs, just give them all identical copies of the same abilities, without even the pretence that they are different. Saying that we have 17 jobs is just a marketing gimmick, when you have only hired four people who are attempting (poorly) to manage all of them.

If Square Enix can't be bothered to invest time and money into their job design and gameplay, they will lose players to companies that will.

[AceofRains]

You know what would be pretty interesting? Instead of role skills or cross class skills- what if we could declare a subjob? And then chose from a handful of applicable spells or skills from that subjob. Like say I’m playing Monk and I could for Subjob slot Ninja’s Ninjutsu. I know I know, they’d never do it because balance and all that jazz.

[Enkidoh]

You know what would be pretty interesting? Instead of role skills or cross class skills- what if we could declare a subjob? And then chose from a handful of applicable spells or skills from that subjob. Like say I’m playing Monk and I could for Subjob slot Ninja’s Ninjutsu. I know I know, they’d never do it because balance and all that jazz.

It's not just balance why you will never see FFXI's Subjob system here - players hated having to level a Job they had no interest in playing just to make use of it as a subjob in FFXI, and it was exactly the same here with the crossclass system. People complained on this very forum having to level say THM just to use Swiftcast for their CNJ/WHM for instance, and Yoshi has merely pulled a Wesley and said "as you wish", and replaced that system with role abilities automatically learned, making levelling a lot easier.

Additionally, Yoshi is determined to also avoid FFXI's pitfalls of certain subjob combinations being exploited by players as "the meta" (as certain combinations were, quite frankly, completely useless - try getting a party in FFXI as a mage like WHM with a WAR subjob for instance - you'd be laughed and taunted all the way back to Lower Jeuno if you even managed to score an invite) where as it was basically demanded that you had certain subjobs and only those subjobs: NIN sub with tanks (for Utsusemi), WAR sub for NIN and PLD (for Provoke and defensive buffs), WHM sub with other mage Jobs for teleporting etc.

The problems with job favouritism in FFXI was something that was always at the back of Yoshi's mind when he redesigned FFXIV 1.0 into ARR and something he was determined to avoid in the game's ongoing development. Something that the subjob system alas is anethema to.

[AceofRains]

It's not just balance why you will never see FFXI's Subjob system here - players hated having to level a Job they had no interest in playing just to make use of it as a subjob in FFXI, and it was exactly the same here with the crossclass system. People complained on this very forum having to level say THM just to use Swiftcast for their CNJ/WHM for instance, and Yoshi has merely pulled a Wesley and said "as you wish", and replaced that system with role abilities automatically learned, making levelling a lot easier.

Additionally, Yoshi is determined to also avoid FFXI's pitfalls of certain subjob combinations being exploited by players as "the meta" (as certain combinations were, quite frankly, completely useless - try getting a party in FFXI as a mage like WHM with a WAR subjob for instance - you'd be laughed and taunted all the way back to Lower Jeuno if you even managed to score an invite) where as it was basically demanded that you had certain subjobs and only those subjobs: NIN sub with tanks (for Utsusemi), WAR sub for NIN and PLD (for Provoke and defensive buffs), WHM sub with other mage Jobs for teleporting etc.

The problems with job favouritism in FFXI was something that was always at the back of Yoshi's mind when he redesigned FFXIV 1.0 into ARR and something he was determined to avoid in the game's ongoing development. Something that the subjob system alas is anethema to.

I’m aware. I get it. “...and all that jazz.”

Because of the action based nature of this game though it would be a little bit different in execution. They could pic and choose which actions would be applicable to the main job. If you wanted to be a Warrior/Scholar then the game system could pick and choose which Scholar actions you would be allowed to take to specifically compliment Warrior. The difference from XI being that it’s not based on subjob being half your level,, it’s just based on what you’re allowed to slot.

Generally though, I was more entertaining a thought. In XI Samurai/Summoner would be a terrible combo under that game’s system. But if there were a game with final fantasy jobs and a subjob system that encouraged you to really play what you like to make a job class that’s really one of a kind, I would be exquisitely exited for it.

[QooEr]

The present role system is just a cost saving measure, nothing more. Rather than design unique animations for different jobs, just give them all identical copies of the same abilities, without even the pretence that they are different. Saying that we have 17 jobs is just a marketing gimmick, when you have only hired four people who are attempting (poorly) to manage all of them.

If Square Enix can't be bothered to invest time and money into their job design and gameplay, they will lose players to companies that will.

would be except for the cases where they got rid of animations to put the role ones in, such as esuna/leeches/detriment, lucid/shroud of saints/luminiferous aether

[ADVSS]

would be except for the cases where they got rid of animations to put the role ones in, such as esuna/leeches/detriment, lucid/shroud of saints/luminiferous aether

Yeah shadowskin was already there, brutal swing was already there, etc. Seriously theres only 3 REAL skill tanks ever needed. 1 was provoke, the other was arms length.(third was shirk, its def probably no longer needed) Thats literally all they ever needed as cross. Which is why they had to have gld as a cross class in 2/3.0 honestly seems like a waste of resources to nix the skills that are already in place to do the same thing

[AceofRains]

I have to say, I most support Seraphor’s concept of making unique additional effects to role actions. There’s a lot that can be done in this simple measure to differentiate jobs and keep them at their core. They could have all jobs of a role learn the same role actions still, but allow traits to upgrade a few of them into unique versions.

One role action that also jumps out at me as off-putting is arms length. All versions of this add a 20% slow if struck. For what? If everyone uses it everyone applies this non-overlapping slow that half the time will be resisted anyways.

[Laphicet]

would be except for the cases where they got rid of animations to put the role ones in, such as esuna/leeches/detriment, lucid/shroud of saints/luminiferous aether

The animations are still in the game files for almost all of the removed skills. You have to use certain unmentionable third party tools to view them used by your character, but they're still there. You also see them used by NPCs during lower-level job quests. Sidurgu during the DRK quests is one of the best examples of this as he'll use almost all the skills DRK had in HW.