Pronouns?

[Gameovers]

I don't have any memory of such a quest.

There's a majorly huge awesome biggest and monster like chance I'm misremembering details. but I remember being told they are canon and following it up with something in game telling me as such. Please don't hate me T.T

[tdb]

This would hardly be much in terms of resources. If its wanting to use a male character and use female pronouns or vice-versa, all the work has already been done as the dialogue from NPCs already exists. It would simply be allowing the player to change that flag between M or F. Adding in they/them would be more work, sure. But a simple swap should be pretty simple.

Separating the dialogue flag from the physical gender flag would probably be comparatively simple (but that does not necessarily make it simple in absolute terms, given the spaghetti code we know exists in some other parts of the game). But that flag affects more than just pronouns. If you just toggled that flag, various NPCs would be referring to your male-bodied character as "madam", "mistress", "lass", "girl", "woman" etc. This also applies to NPCs you've never met. How would they know your identified gender when you first talk to them? And like Iscah mentions it goes further than that. In some conversations it's not just single words that get changed but entire lines of dialogue are selected based on gender or other properties.

Also, I wonder how exactly the aetheryte transport system works? I have the impression that your physical body actually ceases to exist for a moment and you traverse the lifestream in aetherial form. Are there some constraints which require the physical body to be reconstituted in the exact same way, or would your physical appearance after such a trip rather match your mental self-image? If it's the latter then it would be pretty strange for the WoL to have gender dissonance and require pronouns not matching their physical body.

[Shibi]

Also, I wonder how exactly the aetheryte transport system works? I have the impression that your physical body actually ceases to exist for a moment and you traverse the lifestream in aetherial form. Are there some constraints which require the physical body to be reconstituted in the exact same way, or would your physical appearance after such a trip rather match your mental self-image?

From everything I have found the devices convert your body to it's aetherial form, then back to it's previous physical form at the other end. As far as I've seen or read, one's perception of the self doesn't seem to have the ability to change the output, although clothes, echo, and "other things" can go missing if the lifestream is pushed to the extreme.

However, the ability for someone to become a "primal", such as with Saint Shiva, suggests there would be other ways - like belief and prayer - with which one could transmute one's form into the form of the mind's eye.

[MsMisato]

Hey Y'all!

I was wondering if anybody knows if there is a way to set or change your own pronouns in game, or if there is a way to note them to others without explicitly stating them?

I would like to go by They/Them pronouns in game, as this game has been one of the only spots I feel safe being myself.

I am sure there are other folks who are interested in finding out how to do this, or folks who want to see it implemented in some way if it's not already in game.

Thanks for your time, yall!

Short of telling the individuals or groups directly. the best place is under your search info in game. the spot where you can fill with whatever you want and other player's can see. Other than that there is the profile section on your character's page on Lodestone.

[TheMightyMollusk]

However, the ability for someone to become a "primal", such as with Saint Shiva, suggests there would be other ways - like belief and prayer - with which one could transmute one's form into the form of the mind's eye.

People who turn themselves into primals (Shiva, King Thordan, Tsukuyomi) overload their bodies with aether to transform. When that aether runs out, they change back. Shiva/Ysayle is the only one we see to actually survive post-transformation for more than a few minutes; however, Archbishop Thordan was an elderly man beforehand, and Yotsuyu was repeatedly shot right afterwards, so it's hard to call if it's a side-effect of the transformation, an effect of the primal transformation without the protection of the Echo and/or Blessing of Light, or just because of outside circumstances. Either way, unless they continually feed on aether, the change isn't permanent.

[DPZ2]

It'd be hard to put this into the game and still be somewhat immersive.

I don't expect a barista to refer to me as "walking one", nor do I expect a vendor to refer to themselves as "this one" (except if they're Sylph). It's bad enough that all of those NPCs refer to me as "Warrior of Light" -- I can't get them to use "dancing one".

I'm all for requesting personal friends and acquaintances (aka players of FFXIV) to use pronouns of choice, but I don't believe SE will ever program them into the game.

[reiichi]

From what I remember seeing of raw script, it's something along the lines of "if character is X, display text 'xxxxx'", and as I've been saying it's not just a matter of dropping in a single word in the right place bacuse there are so many different forms of gendered words or sentences.

It's not a matter of dropping in an external placeholder to determine whether Thancred tells you he's "quite taken with you" or simply "somewhat in awe". It's not placeholder text that determines how Magnai and Daidukul react to you. It's specific text at that place in the script which must check your character's gender and display the appropriate set of text boxes, but it's not just dropping pronouns alone into a generic script.

I can only imagine this "third party plug-in for custom preferences" had to do a lot of work to set up a custom system. It also presumably stores that information locally, and doesn't transmit it to other users, but if you want others to see your custom pronouns then that information has to be carried along with your character to every other person who sees you on their screen.

Using your first linked quest as an example,

Ahhh! I'm sorry, <If(PlayerParameter(4))>m-m-madam<Else/>s-s-sir</If>! No need to get angry, now! I-I have a problem, all right!? I was working it out with my mummy, and─uh, er, ah...

It's quite literally a template and placeholder system that generates the correct line based off your character's information. Just like any other templating system out there, you can have conditionals and branching which allows for a more "dynamic" text block display, which is what the game already does. Making an adjustment to check for some other character variable would be simple and like all other question dialog, handled completely client-side because the server doesn't care about pronouns. Naturally, the character's gender would still matter for things like equipping gear, but those checks do have to be validated by the server. There's no in-game dialog that checks the gender of your party members to my knowledge.

The plugin itself basically just overrides those local to the client variables and the text payload continues as normal. It'd be a lot more involved to inject something like "they/them" since that's not swapping a conditional if/else, but the general work needed to make these adjustments could be largely automated by the developers, I'd imagine as their scripting system likely allows them to already make those changes without having to hand-touch each one. (Just like how all the quests that mention race magically adjusted to Hrothgar and Viera).

[Ammokkx]

Using your first linked quest as an example,


It's quite literally a template and placeholder system that generates the correct line based off your character's information. Just like any other templating system out there, you can have conditionals and branching which allows for a more "dynamic" text block display, which is what the game already does. Making an adjustment to check for some other character variable would be simple and like all other question dialog, handled completely client-side because the server doesn't care about pronouns. Naturally, the character's gender would still matter for things like equipping gear, but those checks do have to be validated by the server. There's no in-game dialog that checks the gender of your party members to my knowledge.

The plugin itself basically just overrides those local to the client variables and the text payload continues as normal. It'd be a lot more involved to inject something like "they/them" since that's not swapping a conditional if/else, but the general work needed to make these adjustments could be largely automated by the developers, I'd imagine as their scripting system likely allows them to already make those changes without having to hand-touch each one. (Just like how all the quests that mention race magically adjusted to Hrothgar and Viera).

You're still missing the voice acting problem.

It's not quite as easy to hire voice actors to go back and record every piece of gendered dialogue for a third or further option.

[reiichi]

You're still missing the voice acting problem.

It's not quite as easy to hire voice actors to go back and record every piece of gendered dialogue for a third or further option.

Given the game's aversion to already voicing cutscenes in general, even fewer with the player being referenced beyond things like "you" or "yours," I don't think they'd have to really make adjustments. Or they could simply start with asking a player to pick whether they'd prefer their character be referred to with masculine or feminine words that could be adjusted just like cutscene languages. The game's scripting engine already knows how to select the right dialog options based on character variables, and while that wouldn't work well for someone who's not on the binary spectrum, it'd certainly be better than nothing at all.

For text-only dialog options though, as I've mentioned in prior posts, these changes are incredibly easy to adjust for and it likely wouldn't involve particular work to include something like they/them style pronouns instead of he/him or she/hers and let a player set in the client which set they'd prefer.

[Mavrias]

You're still missing the voice acting problem.

It's not quite as easy to hire voice actors to go back and record every piece of gendered dialogue for a third or further option.

I'm still trying to remember the last time I saw a voice acted cutscene where anyone referred to my character as anything other than "my friend" or "warrior of light" or something similar. I can't recall hearing "she" or "her." I've seen it in text obviously, but never said out loud.