FF14 is not made for hardcore players.

[ForteNightshade]

No actually, there are no game rules set by the developers that state people who don't meet the bare minimum should be open to criticism. That's nonsense. If someone is making your DF group (please notice the big DF here) a mess, you have three options as given by the game's mechanics:

1. Leave the group.
2. Initiate a kick.
3. Persevere and finish the dungeon.

You can offer the option of help in a nice way too but only when the time is right together with the circumstances. Notice the "option" to help. I am not talking about unsolicited advice here.

To be fair, there is equally no game rules where you aren't allowed to offer constructive criticism. Regardless, your entire argument hinges on it being toxic—which it isn't. You taking offense to something does not make it inherently toxic. In fact, you could easily spin it the opposite way. A healer refusing to DPS because it isn't their playstyle is deliberately making a dungeon take longer due to their selfishness; a tank not using cooldowns because "healers should heal and not worry about DPS" is, again, selfish. And as this is a cooperative game, your performance does matter as it impacts other players. They have just as much a right to voice their opinions as you.

You definitely sound like part of the problem here. You really shouldn't want to dictate what people should or shouldn't be doing. Performance is little to no issue in normals dungeons/trials and even experts(at a certaint point)in every expansion. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And then people wonder why dungeons are considered boring, dull and unimaginative—something even the developers have acknowledged. Perhaps, it's because they're so pathetically easy because how dare we expect anything beyond a pulse from someone at max level. People, typically, aren't going into dungeons, trials or even Savage PF expecting top tier performance. They're expecting reasonably competency. That's a pretty low bar.

[MagicAura]

To be fair, there is equally no game rules where you aren't allowed to offer constructive criticism. Regardless, your entire argument hinges on it being toxic—which it isn't. You taking offense to something does not make it inherently toxic. In fact, you could easily spin it the opposite way. A healer refusing to DPS because it isn't their playstyle is deliberately making a dungeon take longer due to their selfishness; a tank not using cooldowns because "healers should heal and not worry about DPS" is, again, selfish. And as this is a cooperative game, your performance does matter as it impacts other players. They have just as much a right to voice their opinions as you.

Of course they have the right to voice their opinions. And I never claimed that offering advice is in itself toxic. Rather, the way it's offered can be. And again--putting aside the case of rudeness--advice being rejected is part of the human condition. Some people will accept it, some people will reject it. My argument is that attempting to change the way people operate, when one doesn't really know who is on the other side of the cable, is a risk. Some will accept gracefully, some will reject gracefully, some will reject rudely. Personally I have no tolerance for any kind of abuse, be it mocking because my play is found wanting, or a bad response for offering to help.

And you know depending on the case, people will behave differently. I'll give you an example from my own experience. I'm levelling healers and trying to learn the combined healer/dps gameplay. I'm still so very noob and clueless. A couple of days ago, I was in Brayfox's Longstop and at some point the tank went much lower than I was comfortable because I forgot myself DPSing. I started healing desperately and as fast as I could but the tank's health wasn't coming up. The more that happened, the more I panicked. I was on SCH so Selene helped but my brain just stopped working. The tank survived but I was left wondering what was happening. And then I thought: had I targeted the tank for healing? As I thought of that the tank said to me: pay attention to who your target is.

My response was to apologise and tell him I had panicked. I'm a big girl and owning my mistakes is natural to me. We moved on and the rest of the dungeon went without issues albeit with me a little more shaken than normal.

Now I can see how at that point, someone, due to shame or other reasons may lash out and reject the obvious help. The tank wasn't rude, they were practical. It's not that I didn't know that I need to target the right person to heal. It's the panic that had spoken. But it's a coin toss when you offer any kind of advice as to how people will respond. Someone else in my place may had taken that as a personal attack and may had responded differently.

Hope that makes sense. In essence, I see the point of the people who want competent gameplay but when you use the DF, it's a random chance. Fretting about that is a waste of energy and pointless. No amount of tutorials or carrots will ever change the human mindset and condition.

[DPZ2]

And as this is a cooperative game, your performance does matter as it impacts other players. They have just as much a right to voice their opinions as you.

There is a difference between 'opinion', 'critique' and 'offering advice'. The problem is that some appear to assume opinion = advice.

I assume you are talking specifically about the forums themselves, where opinions are well within bounds.

Give 'opinions' of play style to another player in-game and yes, you've crossed a boundary line.

[Ayuhra]

There is a difference between 'opinion', 'critique' and 'offering advice'. The problem is that some appear to assume opinion = advice.

I assume you are talking specifically about the forums themselves, where opinions are well within bounds.

Give 'opinions' of play style to another player in-game and yes, you've crossed a boundary line.

Yeah pretty much this.

Speaking as one of those filthy casuals your raid leader warned you about...

In Heavensward I was worse at the game than I am now. There was a right and wrong way to criticize my performance even then.

WRONG: Once I ran Vault and did badly. I got the pet and the other black mage said "Of COURSE the (censored) Black mage got the pet" (censored being a curse word for bad, probably not the worst word you can think of though I just don't want a forum vacation)

WRONG: Doing badly in a Alexander pug. Someone brought a guild mate into the group to join in on laughing at me. Yes, this happened. I stopped playing the game for a couple years.

RIGHT: Doing badly in a dungeon. The tank said "BLM, you should use your fire spells in this order." This may have been blunt but he gave good advice that I followed and he did not insult me in the process.

What I'm getting at is...recognize that everyone you are grouped with a person. You can criticize and offer advice without being insulting.

[Liam_Harper]

There is a difference between 'opinion', 'critique' and 'offering advice'. The problem is that some appear to assume opinion = advice.

Sure, but the opposite is also true where many players appear to assume advice = opinion.

For example, they receive constructive criticism that can be backed up with math, logic and reliable sources but don't even listen in the first place because "that's just their opinion and I prefer mine", and continue on their way playing Ice Mage, single pulling mobs or spamming Cure I all dungeon.

[linayar]

Sure, but the opposite is also true where many players appear to assume advice = opinion.

For example, they receive constructive criticism that can be backed up with math, logic and reliable sources but don't even listen in the first place because "that's just their opinion and I prefer mine", and continue on their way playing Ice Mage, single pulling mobs or spamming Cure I all dungeon.

So, just to be clear here, the opinion in your scenario is not the math that may certainly say certain playstyles are not as efficient. The opinion is that, therefore, those playstyles should not be used even on content that would still be clearable with those playstyles.

On the other hand, it doesn't really matter if an advice comes with an opinion. If you genuinely think it's good advice, then you should give it unless you're corrected in that it's not a good advice after all. But the other person can still choose not to take the advice regardless.

[Veis_Alveare]

But the other person can still choose not to take the advice regardless.

And if they do so they're being the toxic ones, wasting other people's time.