Job Change Suggestions for SMN

[Zaiyah]

I know it has been said plenty of times over but smn in 14 doesn't feel like smn outside of demi phases.

I just wanted to share an idea I had if they seriously wanted to address this issue.

Smn currently feels like a bunch of conflicting ideas trying to work together. This is clearly due to how it was introduced tied to sch which has actively restricted how the job grows as archanist based skills inhibit how the job could be played.

The fact that this is acknowledged by yoshi in the way he will never release a dual job class again makes it disappointing that these two jobs haven't been fully separated yet.

For starters smn would need to be rereleased as a new job. Starting at a lv 50-60 point.

This would erase all of the archanist skills from the bar and allow smn to be smn.

So my idea for smn would be an aoe specialist of burst/buff/debuff-dot.

All smn spells would be aoe whether the focus is self target is or target a monster/ally

Smn skills:

I really liked how SE and yoshi has done pheonix and how it feels. So I wanted to run with this idea. Smn opener would start with a demi phase (which one depends on what level). The part that would be new is that carbuncle would now be considered a demi phase for smn. Also pheonix would no longer be a demi phase. Also OGCDs would be greatly reduced outside of role skills. Non demi skills outside of OGDC would not be available during demi phases

Carbuncle: OGCD Duration - 10 sec Summons carbuncle which allows the player to use 3 gcd spells only usable while carbuncle is up. Extends negative debuffs/dots by 10 sec cast by the smn. Upon ending grants 2 uses of "summoners favor" - think aether flow. This spell turns into bahamut upon use (lv 50).

Summoners Favor: "Passive" Allows instant cast of gcd smn spell and adds a debuff specific to the spell cast. Once all allowable uses are used unlocks next demi use.

All non demi phase spells that are gdc would combo with each other to empower them. This would encourage diversity in spell use. Also each non demi spell could have it's own debuff or dot, whichever balances easier. Additional note all debuff/dot skills would do the same damage further encouraging spell use to get empowered procs. buff skill or beneficial skills would do less damage.

Ifrit: GCD AOE Damage - Adds debuff or dot if summoners favor is active. Combo -empowered damage

Garuda: GCD AOE Damage - Adds debuff or dot if summoners favor is active. Combo -empowered damage

- continued below

[Zaiyah]

If debuffs/buffs or dots are chosen for how this works it could create interesting interactions/situationals based on need. After the uses of "summoners favor" (still keep in mind aetherflow) are used Summon Bahamut Will be available.

Summon Bahamut: OGCD Duration - 10 sec Summons bahamut which allows the player to use 3 gcd spells only usable while bahamut is up. Extends negative debuffs/dots by 10 sec cast by the smn. Upon ending grants 3 uses of "summoners favor" This spell turns into Alexander upon use (lv 60) or Upon ending grants 1 uses of "summoners favor" This spell turns into Carbuncle upon use (lv 59 or lower).

Ramuh: GCD AOE Damage - Adds debuff or dot if summoners favor is active. Combo -empowered damage

Leviathan: OGCD Target Ally AOE Damage /AOE Heal (small) 1min CD

Pheonix: GCD AOE Target self AOE Damage / AOE Raise / AOE Heal (very small) 30 min CD (this would realistically only be usable once per instance)

-continued below

[Zaiyah]

Summon Alexander: OGCD Duration - 10 sec Summons alexander which allows the player to use 3 gcd spells only usable while alexander is up. Extends negative debuffs/dots by 10 sec cast by the smn. Upon ending grants 4 uses of "summoners favor" This spell turns into Triad upon use (lv 70) or Upon ending grants 1 use of "summoners favor" This spell turns into Carbuncle upon use (lv 69 or lower).

Titan: OGCD AOE Target Self AOE Damage / Damage Reduction buff or Shield

Shiva: AOE Damage - Adds debuff or dot if summoners favor is active. Combo -empowered damage

Summon Triad or Odin or OP Primal of your choice: OGCD Summons OP Primal which allows the player to use 4 gcd spells only usable while OP Primal is up. Extends negative debuffs/dots by 10 sec cast by the smn. Upon ending grants 4 uses of "summoners favor" This spell turns into Even more op primal upon use (lv 80) or Upon ending grants 1 use of "summoners favor" This spell turns into Carbuncle upon use (lv 79 or lower).

Favor of the Primals: OGDC Summon Carbuncle becomes Summon Bahamut @ lv 50, Summon Alexander @ lv 60, Summon OP Primal @lv 70 and 80.


Summon Even More OP Primal of your choice: GCD Summons OP Primal which allows the player to use 1 spell only usable while OP Primal is up. Extends negative debuffs/dots by 10 sec cast by the smn. Does even more damage based on number of debuffs/dots on enemy. Upon ending grants 1 use of "summoners favor" This spell turns into Carbuncle upon use.

The last demi stage would be updated to be like the rest when the level cap increases. The same buttons would be used for each demi phase to keep bloat to a minimum. With this smn would have the job of maintaining their debuffs through maintaining their rotation. Debuffs would theroetically be up 100% of the time so long as the smn doesn't die.

This kind of build would give smn a unique feel that screams smn in my opinion. It is simple in rotation but gives smn something to do at all times while giving that feeling that you are a smn. Animations for the non demi phases would have smaller versions of the actual primals appearing to execute their signature abilities.

There have been A LOT of steps to make smn and sch feel different but the rough edges are still there. Hopefully yoshi decides to overhaul smn I don't expect these ideas to be considered but I do want something to be done at least. I would love for a floating crystal to be the weapon as well....

Well that's all for my rant lol. Would like to know peoples opinions of this~

[HeulGDarian]

Here we go again

[Exodus-E]

Here we go again

I know, right?

Yet another person who wants to eliminate Egis (completely phasing them out in favor of Demis), all while ignoring the story/lore/artwork/etc. that was created and tied around them since 2013~2014.
Not to mention one that's oblivious to the fact that each Final Fantasy game handles its elements differently.

Look, we get it.
SMN may have some conceptual/mechanical problems as of this particular expansion.
But that doesn't mean that Egis are the main culprit, nor that they can't keep adjusting them at all (Patch 5.1 proved that).

Also, I think the worst part of those suggestions is that these would lock us out of any other "potential" new Egi/Trance/Demi/etc. such as Bismarck, Ravana, or even Shinryu.

[Seraphor]

We just need more egi glamours. People can summon whatever they want then.

I do think SMN is a bit of a missmatch of concepts though. It shouldn't really be a DoT based mage with pets, because those pets should act AS DoTs themselves. If they reduced or eliminated SMN's own DoTs they could ramp up the damage contribution of the pets themselves, while making room for some more 'general combo' spells that could themselves be based on other summons.

[Zaiyah]

I know, right?

Yet another person who wants to eliminate Egis (completely phasing them out in favor of Demis), all while ignoring the story/lore/artwork/etc. that was created and tied around them since 2013~2014.
Not to mention one that's oblivious to the fact that each Final Fantasy game handles its elements differently.

Look, we get it.
SMN may have some conceptual/mechanical problems as of this particular expansion.
But that doesn't mean that Egis are the main culprit, nor that they can't keep adjusting them at all (Patch 5.1 proved that).

Also, I think the worst part of those suggestions is that these would lock us out of any other "potential" new Egi/Trance/Demi/etc. such as Bismarck, Ravana, or even Shinryu.

Actually no I like the pet idea and managing them. This was a suggestion keeping in mind that Yoshi's team hates the egi at this point. Evidenced by all but phasing them out into back ground pets that only serve the purpose to signify what "stance" you are in while providing a dot in the form of AA (single/aoe/shield). If they aren't going to make smn about the summons and add more egis or glamours or center the gameplay around them then just scrap them and make amazing animations for set skills instead. Yes there is lore but a retcon is not unheard of or would even be THAT much to do. My prefered style would be to scrap most spells cast by the smn and make them cast by the egi you have summoned but that isn't how yoshi wants it.

[Exodus-E]

This was a suggestion keeping in mind that Yoshi's team hates the egi at this point. Evidenced by all but phasing them out into back ground pets that only serve the purpose to signify what "stance" you are in while providing a dot in the form of AA (single/aoe/shield). If they aren't going to make smn about the summons and add more egis or glamours or center the gameplay around them then just scrap them and make amazing animations for set skills instead.

For the record, the latest mention of them acknowledging/working on them was back in May 14th 2020 in the 12th LL Revival, shown here (in the live chat):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQbr0xgafk0 (at 34:04)

Personally, I doubt that they actively hate them, it's just that they have a lot of other stuff to take care of (unfortunately).

Yes there is lore but a retcon is not unheard of or would even be THAT much to do. My prefered style would be to scrap most spells cast by the smn and make them cast by the egi you have summoned but that isn't how yoshi wants it.

Not on this magnitude, especially since it was pretty much solidified in outside sources (see: official artworks/renderings, encyclopedias, a "Tales from the Storm" entry, etc.).

It'd be like removing the faeries from SCH (and/or changing their roles).
It's far too late at this point.

EDIT:
On a related note, here's my (usual) message for the community team and/or the development team:

If you're reading this, PLEASE make an official statement on the (current) status of Egi glamours.
Even implementing a dedicated/exclusive UI window to manage them (akin to BLU's spell book) would go a long way.
Thank you for your time.

[Lauront]

I don't want to see egis wiped out but I think a change to how they work would make sense, particularly to fix the ghosting issues they come with; the game doesn't handle pets too well and it doesn't seem like they'll be changing that any time soon. So...

• Turn the egis and demi-egis into a stance-/trance-based spell animation and bake their auto-attack damage into a reworked Miasma and Bio (these should remain with SCH as SMN gets its own new version.) Have which egi is out affect spells like Fester, Outburst, the dot, etc.
  
• Assuming Garuda keeps her ground AOE, have this instead afflict the targets with a DOT rather than simply vanishing. Also let it stack or something if it's used multiple times.

SMN is not really a DOT management caster in the traditional sense, so I am hoping this niche is extended to any new caster, and SMN strengthens its existing focus on egi and trances.

I'd also like for them to rework DWT so it functions more like FBT, with Bahamut out during it. The current difference in how they function just seems like a difference for the sake of it, not one that is meaningfully more fun.

[Dyvid]

Actually no I like the pet idea and managing them. This was a suggestion keeping in mind that Yoshi's team hates the egi at this point. Evidenced by all but phasing them out into back ground pets that only serve the purpose to signify what "stance" you are in while providing a dot in the form of AA (single/aoe/shield). If they aren't going to make smn about the summons and add more egis or glamours or center the gameplay around them then just scrap them and make amazing animations for set skills instead. Yes there is lore but a retcon is not unheard of or would even be THAT much to do. My prefered style would be to scrap most spells cast by the smn and make them cast by the egi you have summoned but that isn't how yoshi wants it.

You evidence is suspect at best. To be clear, I suggested in 2014 to give Egi a "stance" based on how the game was designed (A pet designed for trash mobs and one for boss fights). Further more Egi damage is a lot better now than it was then. Egi control is better now than it was then. In fact, Summoner is more about summons now than it was then, anyone remember "Ruin Mage?" The biggest community issue that needs to be address is Egi cosmetic design.