damage buffs for MCH?

[Adventica6]

Always amazes me every few days there is a new qq thread about Mch. You must be really bored and want attention.

[CKNovel]

Always amazes me every few days there is a new qq thread about Mch. You must be really bored and want attention.

You may want to check your eyesight right now.
This thread was created yesterday. Some days ago someone ask questions.
Last month there was 2 threads, one about BRD and MCH and another about the possibility of res on a MCH.
And a month before that, a thread about the Machinist kit as a whole.

There is also many threads about SMN, BLM and BRD. Maybe not as much, but they sure are present and popular.

If we want attention?
If there is voices raising, if there is concerns, then there is a problem. NIN gets a fast rework and MNK will be reworked for 5.4 but MCH had to wait a whole expansion just for a button to overheat.
If we are bored?
That's right, the rotation is boring.

[Rika007]

Always amazes me every few days there is a new qq thread about Mch. You must be really bored and want attention.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. You don't get changes if you don't ask for them, and the group that voice their grievances the loudest and most often typically are the ones that get what they ask for.

[cactuarzzzz]

DRK screamed since 5.0 and today they still get nothing.

[Rika007]

DRK screamed since 5.0 and today they still get nothing.

Took two years of Bard players screaming about Bow Mage for them to drop it in Stormblood. Its' taken 6 years for Monk fans to finally get a rework. MCH is now on year three. Ninja was about 4 years of complaints till the Mudra rework. Gotta just keep giving that feedback.

[Rai_Takara]

One most obvious is that there is 4 DPS spot. You bring 2 Casters or 2 Melee, but if you bring 2 Ranged you are punished with low damage despite the double range mobility bringing nothing to the table.

Yes it matters, you now have two jobs that can be in lala land and do mechanics that are suboptimal with 100% uptime. For having an easier time, you do less damage. Simple as that. Double caster is an anomoly SE realizes and is trying to fix. The ideal comp is double melee for a balanced raid and that's what SE is trying to accomplish sans SMN being too strong.

The ranged role is not fine. It went from a valuable support that could make the difference with manasong and mitigation to just a DPS with one mitigation and some extra for some.
The big support part was removed/gutted from rangeds and it wasn't replaced with anything.
Ranged role needs a rework, you can't slap a silence on it and a 1% stats to everyone and call it a day.

Don't conveniently forget that the only reason we brought ranged before was because of their TP/MP refreshes. Otherwise we'd be better off with another melee or caster. So in effect, we traded the refreshes for the 1% tax and nothing changed.

sorry but why exactly does blm need to be top in your equation ?

Because BLM has many top end optimizations it needs to do to stay at the top and is the most dependent on the party to adjust to it. Otherwise a normal BLM will do less than a decent melee by virtue of having to move and adjust to the party.

yes, this means that smn needs to deal at least some dps below blackmage, but add the fact it can rezz on top and one could again say they offer equal "value". if blm and smn were really balanced against each other by definition smn (and by extension redmage) needs to offer to the group something of a value at least close to equal to blm, i.e. close to being top dps.

Rez will probably get gutted from casters in 6.0 or added to BLM and any new casters as a role action. It's the one last thing non-homogenized that needs to because RDM is lackluster as a result of it.

Also a balanced SMN would be doing the same damage as top melees, not BLM. And even BLM won't be much higher than the melees. We're talking within crit variance here, which translates to pretty much irrelevant aside from the top speed runners.

If you want ranged to do more damage, make it a harder role. Currently it's the easiest role out of the DPS.

[cactuarzzzz]

Took two years of Bard players screaming about Bow Mage for them to drop it in Stormblood. Its' taken 6 years for Monk fans to finally get a rework. MCH is now on year three. Ninja was about 4 years of complaints till the Mudra rework. Gotta just keep giving that feedback.

Wanna bet how many years from now WD problem would finally get addressed?

since dev know that there're people that vow to keep re sub so they can come and post in official forum why would dev need to hurry and give the player what they want now since sitting on their hand would mean the player would pay more to re sub to post?

[Akiudo]

Because BLM has many top end optimizations it needs to do to stay at the top and is the most dependent on the party to adjust to it. Otherwise a normal BLM will do less than a decent melee by virtue of having to move and adjust to the party.

you yourself have stated more than once that balance really only matters at the absolute top (for example as a reason for why its fine mch has a 500+ dps lead on the other physical ranged even at the 75+ percentile which only gets worse the lower you go even though its also the most consistent among the physical ranged), funny how this point of view flies right out of the window the moment it doesn't suit your preferences.

Rez will probably get gutted from casters in 6.0 or added to BLM and any new casters as a role action. It's the one last thing non-homogenized that needs to because RDM is lackluster as a result of it.

while certainly possible at this point this is pure conjecture, at the very least it seems completly acceptable to stay as is for the entirety of the current expansion which allready says a lot about squares handling of it. they could have easily taken it away from smn the last time they did any kind of smn nerf and explained this with "otherwise we would have needed to nerf its damage further, and we like rezz as a redmage only niche" or something along these lines. as thus far this hasn't happened saying "will probably get gutted or made a role action" is about as usefull as saying "well yea, but lets just pretend it didn't exist"

Also a balanced SMN would be doing the same damage as top melees, not BLM. And even BLM won't be much higher than the melees. We're talking within crit variance here, which translates to pretty much irrelevant aside from the top speed runners.

and with balanced smn doing as much as top melees not only would double caster remain viable, theres also still the aspect of "smn is better able to handle mechanics while minimizing losses compared to melee" which still has to be accounted for. you cant simply go "these ones (phyiscla ranged) are the easiest, so they can be punished to the ground, now these other classes (casters) ? yea, they still don't really need uptime strats, at least hardly compared to melees, also they can handle any kind of mechanic while melee only can conveniently do closed ranged mechanics but whatever, thats not really important because obviously no one would take them for that."

If you want ranged to do more damage, make it a harder role. Currently it's the easiest role out of the DPS.

thats not just deflecting, as my question was "why is it okay for casters to deal melee damage even though they offer advantages compared to melee" and not "why do you believe phys ranged should deal lower damage", its also completly missing the point. if classes are truly balanced than these balance has to happen on a "what do they offer to the group" basis. a class being easier to handle may in fact be something that they offer, that much is true. this however loses literally ANY value it could potentially offer if this "being easier to handle" does on no relevant level translate into actual gains for the group.

[Rai_Takara]

you yourself have stated more than once that balance really only matters at the absolute top (for example as a reason for why its fine mch has a 500+ dps lead on the other physical ranged even at the 75+ percentile which only gets worse the lower you go even though its also the most consistent among the physical ranged), funny how this point of view flies right out of the window the moment it doesn't suit your preferences.

I'm still talking about the top. I just added the benefit of it for the not so top people too. A top tier BLM is still in 99% of the groups they play not going to be able to turret to maximize damage and as such, will lose potential, so they need to be tuned to reflect that and that concept applies to not the top end too.

while certainly possible at this point this is pure conjecture, at the very least it seems completly acceptable to stay as is for the entirety of the current expansion which allready says a lot about squares handling of it. they could have easily taken it away from smn the last time they did any kind of smn nerf and explained this with "otherwise we would have needed to nerf its damage further, and we like rezz as a redmage only niche" or something along these lines. as thus far this hasn't happened saying "will probably get gutted or made a role action" is about as usefull as saying "well yea, but lets just pretend it didn't exist"

These are core changes to the role that are best saved for expansion patches. It's the next logical step, but it's not 100%, so it's a probably. What happened to tanks and healers is an indication of what needs to be done for a 4th caster, and so on.

and with balanced smn doing as much as top melees not only would double caster remain viable, theres also still the aspect of "smn is better able to handle mechanics while minimizing losses compared to melee" which still has to be accounted for. you cant simply go "these ones (phyiscla ranged) are the easiest, so they can be punished to the ground, now these other classes (casters) ? yea, they still don't really need uptime strats, at least hardly compared to melees, also they can handle any kind of mechanic while melee only can conveniently do closed ranged mechanics but whatever, thats not really important because obviously no one would take them for that."

SMN still has to cast which is more than can be said for any of the ranged as is currently. I'd rank the current ranged role higher if they still had their 1.5 second cast bars. People undervalue movement, just because it's not required to succeed.

thats not just deflecting, as my question was "why is it okay for casters to deal melee damage even though they offer advantages compared to melee" and not "why do you believe phys ranged should deal lower damage", its also completly missing the point. if classes are truly balanced than these balance has to happen on a "what do they offer to the group" basis. a class being easier to handle may in fact be something that they offer, that much is true. this however loses literally ANY value it could potentially offer if this "being easier to handle" does on no relevant level translate into actual gains for the group.

Because casters still have to cast and that's more than can be said by a long shot about any physical ranged DPS. The current curve naturally flows as melee >= caster > ranged. If ranged had some distance based "positionals" or other kind of mechanic to force them to use their mobility more, then we can bring that up to melee >= casters >= ranged. There still needs to be a pecking order, but you'd get your wish, IF ranged as a whole were more involved. So I say again, instead of telling SE to buff ranged, tell them to make it harder, the damage will then naturally come to it.

[Jirah]

Always amazes me every few days there is a new qq thread about Mch. You must be really bored and want attention.

Says alot about MCH doesnt it