damage buffs for MCH?

[Wyakin]

What I like about this thread is everyone has the same opinion. Ranged dps is too low, we don’t expect it to be higher than melee or mages but it does need a significant buff upward of 5%. Movement tax is dumb and ease of job is dumb. Then there’s that one guy who disagrees with literally everyone else. He’s all alone arguing that everyone else is wrong

[Jirah]

What I like about this thread is everyone has the same opinion. Ranged dps is too low, we don’t expect it to be higher than melee or mages but it does need a significant buff upward of 5%. Movement tax is dumb and ease of job is dumb. Then there’s that one guy who disagrees with literally everyone else. He’s all alone arguing that everyone else is wrong

Yes Ranged job is low and MCH is a middle finger to the Physcial ranged DPS definition. "Making Jobs Simple" also really dum no pun intended as we seen with a plethora of jobs like healers and tanks, lets not attack people and just ignore them if theyre are dead set on being stubborn about change in a MMO of all things

[Wyakin]

SMN still has to cast. They cannot have 100% no cast without sacrificing DPS output. Similarly RDM cannot have 100% instant casts. Both of those casters will have to cast at some point or another and that's more than has to be considered compared to Physical Ranged where we have it the easiest.

We should be at the bottom because we can do our role the easiest and in general end up being the ones to do any and all mechanics that require a ranged person to resolve, or do you think healers should be the ones baiting twintania's fire in UCoB?

You want the DPS to be upped for Physical Ranged? Ask SE to make them harder to play. They will never buff the DPS of the role as a whole as is until then.

Here you are again, alone arguing against everyone.

Let me explain something to you in very simple words. No one said ranged dps should be above caster or melee. Everyone said that the gap between the mage/melee and ranged is too large.

Ease of job is not a factor they or we should consider since every year they change jobs making some more complex and some easier. Mch is a perfect example of this

And for about the 49th time in this thread. Summoners can instant cast upwards of 40% of their casts and red mage over 50%. Yes they have to cast, pre-plan movement so naturally they should do more dps. But the fact remains that mch, bard and dancer are 2000 dps (10%) behind the top. That is simply unacceptable.

All we are asking for is a small buff to make the dps we do more in line with the shitty 1% party buff we bring

[Grimoire-M]

Do people seriously not remember that NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH were the meta up until halfway through Stormblood, where the overbuffed SMN’s synergy with BLM is what unseated MCH? And that meta period included when Bowmage was a thing? And it had nothing to do with TP/MP concerns, but rather, their DPS output under crit buffs and with piercing?

I believe SMN should be nerfed even as a die hard main but good god at least remember what actually made each class broken. Piercing is what explains the gap now. Get 70-80% of that back in personal potency and ranged jobs are fine again.

[Rika007]

Do people seriously not remember that NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH were the meta up until halfway through Stormblood, where the overbuffed SMN’s synergy with BLM is what unseated MCH? And that meta period included when Bowmage was a thing? And it had nothing to do with TP/MP concerns, but rather, their DPS output under crit buffs and with piercing?

I believe SMN should be nerfed even as a die hard main but good god at least remember what actually made each class broken. Piercing is what explains the gap now. Get 70-80% of that back in personal potency and ranged jobs are fine again.

Sadly literally everyone leaves out the piercing loss in these discussions, and attribute the double ranged meta to both BRD & MCH and Bard's Stormblood power solely on Bard itself and never even consider the other factors. Speaking as a Bard who never had the pleasure of a DRG in their raid for Heavensward or Stormblood, I am well aware of it though. A lot of revisionist history happens in these threads.

[Jirah]

]Sadly literally everyone leaves out the piercing loss[/B] in these discussions, and attribute the double ranged meta to both BRD & MCH and Bard's Stormblood power solely on Bard itself and never even consider the other factors. Speaking as a Bard who never had the pleasure of a DRG in their raid for Heavensward or Stormblood, I am well aware of it though. A lot of revisionist history happens in these threads.

Call me short sighted but this comes from the fact that some people started in SHB? So i dont blame them for not being aware of the meta in 2016-2018

[remiff]

Do people seriously not remember that NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH were the meta up until halfway through Stormblood, where the overbuffed SMN’s synergy with BLM is what unseated MCH? And that meta period included when Bowmage was a thing? And it had nothing to do with TP/MP concerns, but rather, their DPS output under crit buffs and with piercing?

I believe SMN should be nerfed even as a die hard main but good god at least remember what actually made each class broken. Piercing is what explains the gap now. Get 70-80% of that back in personal potency and ranged jobs are fine again.

It is absolutely no longer necessary to decrease the summoner's dps, the current problem of the summoner concerns his kit and not his dps, and to solve this problem without destroying the summoner the best solution is to simply wait for the changes of the 6.0.

The job has already taken on several nerfs.


asking for the nerf of a job is always the worst solution, unless it is broken tier, the summoner is strong but no longer so much as to represent a threat to the red mage or the black mage.

the current problem of the summoner is difficult to settle without destroying him '' his mobility is the biggest problem,
but since the summoner is reworked with each expansion it will be more balanced in 6.0, or very bad as with each expansion release.

finally this topic does not concern the summoner, but the physical ranged dps which need a buff.

[Akiudo]

Do people seriously not remember that NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH were the meta up until halfway through Stormblood, where the overbuffed SMN’s synergy with BLM is what unseated MCH? And that meta period included when Bowmage was a thing? And it had nothing to do with TP/MP concerns, but rather, their DPS output under crit buffs and with piercing?

I believe SMN should be nerfed even as a die hard main but good god at least remember what actually made each class broken. Piercing is what explains the gap now. Get 70-80% of that back in personal potency and ranged jobs are fine again.

while i don't even think smn needs a nerf piercing was a thing yes...

there actually was more to it than just piercing, physical ranged as a whole (if you included their own buffs) really where stronger than they are now, but it wasn't simply being stronger, it was being stronger while having incredible synergy in bards case (bards old crit buff aswell as its own crit scaling) and mch could than simply ride along as you would have a brd/drg anyways.

the important thing here is to realize that theres a middle ground between both extremes, the extreme dragoon/bard synergy was rightfully destroyed by square, doesn't mean phys ranged as a whole need to suck half as hard as they do now...

[CKNovel]

Do people seriously not remember that NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH were the meta up until halfway through Stormblood, where the overbuffed SMN’s synergy with BLM is what unseated MCH? And that meta period included when Bowmage was a thing? And it had nothing to do with TP/MP concerns, but rather, their DPS output under crit buffs and with piercing?

I believe SMN should be nerfed even as a die hard main but good god at least remember what actually made each class broken. Piercing is what explains the gap now. Get 70-80% of that back in personal potency and ranged jobs are fine again.

As people said, that situation was because of the all-mighty synergy between these 4 jobs.
Ninja was bonker, DRG was amazing and there was MNK, BLM and SMN that offers little to no support.

MNK didn't had the Brotherhood yet, only had Mantra most jobs could have a lesser version of it.
BLM, as always, had 0 raidwide buffs and the tower memes.
SMN, I can't quite remember but there was no devotion, instead Ifrit would increase physical damage taken by the target or Garuda would increase magic damage taken. They had a shitty choice, buffing the others or buffing himself, the healers and a potential BLM.

Meanwhile, BRD had no choice, it was always FoE and nothing else. MCH was also locked to physical but it would benefits the MCH and all physicals including the tanks, PLD didn't had its magic combo yet.
Not quite sure if Hypercharge and Trick Attack were limited to physical damages.

But the problem back then came from the fact that one Ranged was necessary for manasong, DRG piercing debuff completely bonker and BLM/SMN brought nothing to the table but weak DPS.
Since ShB they deleted piercing debuff and it's a blessing for rangeds that your DPS won't depend on another ally.

[Wyakin]

Do people seriously not remember that NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH were the meta up until halfway through Stormblood, where the overbuffed SMN’s synergy with BLM is what unseated MCH? And that meta period included when Bowmage was a thing? And it had nothing to do with TP/MP concerns, but rather, their DPS output under crit buffs and with piercing?

I believe SMN should be nerfed even as a die hard main but good god at least remember what actually made each class broken. Piercing is what explains the gap now. Get 70-80% of that back in personal potency and ranged jobs are fine again.

I agree with what you’re saying, though asking to nerf a job is never what anyone wants to hear.

The mch/brd/drg/nin meta was due to drg buffing mch/brd. Nin buffing all physical. Mch buffing all physical and the bard buffing the healers dps (foes) so everyone won.

I’ve said many times in many threads and several times in this thread. All we collectively as ranged dps ask is either a straight 5% dps buff or in some cases support to offset that 5%. Be that foes, tacticians (the old version that buffed people) or something similar. Whatever it is, all three jobs equally need a buff to reduce the gap between the top dps (blm/smn/Sam) and the bottom dps (all three ranged)