[dev1244] Accessory Reform, discussion

[Efrye]

I don't see a difference between a /display on off for a helm, main hand or an accessory. Just use the same code.

I know you're only the messenger, but sometimes the reasons why something can not be implemented sound a bit ridiculous ;x
I don't know if the devs are willing to release some more (technical/coding) details about why it's too much work, but that'd surely help.

Let's see if I can put this in somewhat friendly words...

If they would give you more technical details, you would need a basic knowledge of games programming to understand them. But if you were in possession of such knowledge, you would already understand that it's pretty much never as simple as just using the same code. There are always a lot of factors to consider, especially when you're making an MMO with an engine that wasn't design designed for making MMOs.

There really is no reason to question their judgment with these things.

[Soukyuu]

If they would give you more technical details, you would need a basic knowledge of games programming to understand them. But if you were in possession of such knowledge, you would already understand that it's pretty much never as simple as just using the same code. There are always a lot of factors to consider, especially when you're making an MMO with an engine that wasn't design designed for making MMOs.

There really is no reason to question their judgment with these things.

So let me get that straight.
- They are able to show your character with/without a helm depending on item equipped OR command
- They are able to show your character with/without weapon based on a command
- They are able to show your character with/without earrings depending on item equipped

If they could hack in a way to display your character without a weapon even though you can't unequip it (unlike the helms), there is no reason for them to not being able to do the same for the earrings.

Each accessory has a texture/model. I'm guessing they are not loading those (or loading a visibly "empty" one) when main hand is set to off. I don't see a reason this should be impossible to do for the earrings.

That's why I want more details, or an example. Just prove me wrong.

[ninesunz]

So let me get that straight.
- They are able to show your character with/without a helm depending on item equipped OR command
- They are able to show your character with/without weapon based on a command
- They are able to show your character with/without earrings depending on item equipped

If they could hack in a way to display your character without a weapon even though you can't unequip it (unlike the helms), there is no reason for them to not being able to do the same for the earrings.

Each accessory has a texture/model. I'm guessing they are not loading those (or loading a visibly "empty" one) when main hand is set to off. I don't see a reason this should be impossible to do for the earrings.

That's why I want more details, or an example. Just prove me wrong.

we have no idea how these things are coded, and even less on how they put in the function to hide the helm on the display. Let's "assume" that your character's head is an encompassing module with smaller modules, they where able to fudge it so you can display/hide the helm armor. But you have no idea if the earring module is a sub module within the head module. So then they'd have to rewrite not only write in hide/display earrings they'd have to rewrite display/hide head - we also have no idea how they interlink armor to graphical data.

not to mention they have to code client and server so others see what you see.

[Soukyuu]

Maybe it was stated earlier in the thread, but why do people want to hide accessories?

I understand hiding weapons because it's not technically possible to be "nothing" (class wise) while sporting a bikini, however I don't see the need to hide accessories. If you don't like the look, then don't wear it.

What did I miss?

The part where if you equip an accessory, it is displayed on both ears instead of one. Some people prefer only having one earring displayed. A cosmetic reason, really.

we have no idea how these things are coded, and even less on how they put in the function to hide the helm on the display. Let's "assume" that your character's head is an encompassing module with smaller modules, they where able to fudge it so you can display/hide the helm armor. But you have no idea if the earring module is a sub module within the head module. So then they'd have to rewrite not only write in hide/display earrings they'd have to rewrite display/hide head - we also have no idea how they interlink armor to graphical data.

not to mention they have to code client and server so others see what you see.

But the code/models to display/hide an earring are already there - you can wear no earrings and no earrings are displayed for you and the others.

What they did for helms (my guess) was just add an additional check whether the character has the "hide helm" flag on and don't load the texture for the helm, same for the weapon. That's why I think it should be possible to extend that to earrings, too. The functionality is already there.

I do understand it's not a priority and am not arguing this, but saying it's hard to implement it is rather confusing.

edit:

edit: You're treating textures like that is the only thing that matters in showing up visibly or not.

No, I said texture/model, so I'm meaning both. I do think they load a model that appears to be invisible, possibly by scaling the display to something close to 0. They do have code to scale equip according to race, so that might be it.

[ninesunz]

What they did for helms (my guess) was just add an additional check whether the character has the "hide helm" flag on and don't load the texture for the helm, same for the weapon. That's why I think it should be possible to extend that to earrings, too. The functionality is already there.

I do understand it's not a priority and am not arguing this, but saying it's hard to implement it is rather confusing.

You're assuming the character data isn't linked to stat data isn't linked to graphical data. If it was that easy they would jut put in a "hide" flag to anything they don't want displayed.

Its likely that the item data is linked to character data is linked to stat data is linked to graphical data, if they simply hide the item it would probably negate the stat data. which is why its not a simple fix. They'd have to write a display bypass while keeping the stat, assuming that a bypass function would work in their current code. It maybe they'd have to rewrite the whole thing to put the hide function in there. And again we don't know how deep the module is written or if its embedded inside another module.

[Soukyuu]

You're assuming the character data isn't linked to stat data isn't linked to graphical data. If it was that easy they would jut put in a "hide" flag to anything they don't want displayed.

Its likely that the item data is linked to character data is linked to stat data is linked to graphical data, if they simply hide the item it would probably negate the stat data. which is why its not a simple fix. They'd have to write a display bypass while keeping the stat, assuming that a bypass function would work in their current code. It maybe they'd have to rewrite the whole thing to put the hide function in there. And again we don't know how deep the module is written or if its embedded inside another module.

But it does work for the weapon AND the helms? Doesn't seem likely.
You don't lose your stats if you hide your helm or your weapon, it doesn't make sense for them to code one item type differently from another.

Besides, there was a video (i believe on the CE dvd) where they explained how they handle the items and we were basically told that it's one model for an item type and all they do is switch which "parts" of it are visible, making it possible to display different items while having loaded one.

[wind]

That's why I want more details, or an example. Just prove me wrong.

Considering that accessories are a completely different category in its own right. I'm guessing there are complications with that.

Remember, accessories 'currently' have slot cost(no other item does),
it took them ages to put repairs in for NPC(probably because they coded them differently than other equip able gear)

None of this screams "you're wrong", just that it could be assumed from how they treat accessories so differently than other items(gear). Would imply that the way they are coded into the game is also different(probably overly complex) considering its SE :P

edit: You're treating textures like that is the only thing that matters in showing up visibly or not.