Buffs to dragoon

[Shurrikhan]

now your accusing me of cropping them.

Look at the link on my page. Look at the link on yours. Mine clearly includes additional height, labeling exactly where that parse came from, rather than obscuring anything. Yours purposely leaves this out.

The problem is you argue for Max

(Emphasis my own.) Therein lies your strawman. I've never argued for Max. I've spent three posts now arguing why you shouldn't have done so in the first place.

I've Suggested Multiple Balance changes over the past entire Expansion Cycle Never have i suggested any raw potency changes to the job.

Spare me the righteous indignation when you weren't previously willing to post those actual suggestions here. I'm not about to search your entire post history for them. Thus far we've had only (1) you implying that DRG has been historically and remains currently shorted in terms of raw power, defensive or offensive, and (2) your first post:

I think so too but they won't do anything interesting with it until next expansion. it needs some type of parrying system built into it like samurai, something to give it bigger skill ceiling instead of the linear combat with the impossible to fill conditions, true north alone isn't enough for them, I like dragoon a lot and i want it to be good, it kind of has the issues that melee has in this game being heavily reliant on tank positioning and ranged positioning in order to "excel" but then ultimately does middle of the pack damage even when conditions are right. I wish it had extra reach, and the same attention as the other melee jobs as they tend to be adjusted always before dragoon does unfortunately.

The only thing that actually needs to be changed is for DRG and MNK to have their Stacks not on a timer so they aren't LOST.

Let's stick to DRG, as this is a DRG thread.

BotD cannot be lost except to extremely long cutscenes. Its cooldown is notably shorter than its duration. This isn't a problem even for the most casual of DRGs.

While removing BotD or reducing it to a trait would be a QoL improvement, it wouldn't change DRG's performance in any way.

The Problem is DRG's Geir and Nastrod rely on this timer instead of having charges for some strange reason.

Removing BotD would give no reason to allow you multiple charges of Geirskogul or Nastrond.

Having multiple charges of Geirskogul would be, in effect, a potency buff, as it'd allow an additional Geirskogul or Nastrond under each Lance Charge. It's true that it'd allow them far more flexibility, but it'd also offer them more damage under burst windows and thereby increase their maximum damage potential, which isn't particularly short as is. Some certain iteration of this may be an excellent idea, but I'd need to know more of what you intend.

I ask largely because I also have to worry you don't actually mean "charges"... See below.

DRG's eye mechanic behaves just like Charges DO.

They quite clearly do not; charges are multiples of an initial cooldown, allowing for 2 or 3 of the same ability to be cast in succession and increasing how much time an ability can store accordingly. Perhaps you're thinking of "progress steps" or the like?

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tl;dr: Putting aside for now what would necessarily offer increased ppm (as DRG is far enough behind, on average, to allow for some increases there, but that's a numbers issue for after we've nailed down intended gameplay changes), it seems that you want increased flexibility (as to be less punishable by unfortunate fight timings) and more intuitive design, possibly with a less punishing job mechanic? Am I understanding that correctly?

[Shurrikhan]

Let's compile the positively received suggestions thus far:

1. By whatever means, extend F&C and WT's duration of availability to that of normal combo steps.
2. By whatever means, remove the ability to lose Eyes over long transitions (e.g. Eden Prime cutscene).
3. Further reduce certain animation locks.
4. Give some way to extend Disembowel to AoE. (Note that this would then oblige that 2+GCDs are used on non-AoEs even in AoE scenarios, DRG AoE may already be balanced around not having Disembowel, and that if Disembowel were worth maintaining in that situation then buttonflow would now be less diverse.)
5. Consolidate Mirage Dive to take the place of Jump while Jump is on cooldown, as it has no reason to be a separate key from Jump.

All other suggestions have been made with little necessary regard for balance or has been contested by other DRG mains.

[KalinOrthos]

The only buff to Dragoon I want

is to finally give Dragoon a Freya glamour. Please.

[Shurrikhan]

Here are some, admittedly more ambitious, changes I'd like to see (spitball for now):

• Jump now allows for a degree of movement during its animation, allowing you to change where you land on the enemy, within the bounds of its hitbox, while moving in, and allowing you to rapidly change your return position when returning (landing further forward from, left of, right of, or back from your starting position). While in transit, your hitbox is shrunk to <an infinitesimally small size>.
• All dives likewise allow you to change where you land on the enemy, within the bounds of its hitbox, while moving in, and allow, during the time you spend stuck in place briefly, to influence in which direction and how far thereafter you will "spring" back from the target, making them feel more fluid and responsive.
  
  
• Blood of the Dragon is now a trait. The timer component of Blood of the Dragon itself has been removed, while the timing of Life of the Dragon is now more flexible. Blood of the Dragon now houses up to 5 charges, each generated by Jump, Spineshatter Dive, Dragonfire Dive, Mirage Dive, Fang and Claw, Wheeling Thrust, Sonic Thrust, or Coerthan Tempest. Gierskogul no longer has a cooldown, but instead consumes 2 of these charges at a time to generate 10 seconds of Life of the Dragon each. There are no "Eyes", only Life of the Dragon duration, which can be raised as high as 40 seconds long. The button previously given to Blood of the Dragon is now called Dragonsoul, which causes you to enter Life of the Dragon and for its timer to start ticking down. You want to get off as many Nastronds (improved Geirskoguls) as possible during that duration, and thus should time it towards the end of combos and around your Dives, but the flexible duration should better allow you to rush or hold it.
  
  
• "Sharpened Fang and Claw" and "Enhanced Wheeling Thrust" traits are now just called "Fang and Claw" and "Wheeling Thrust" respectively. Both of these "Dragon" weaponskills no longer interrupt your combos, thus allowing you to string together, say, TT-Db-CT-TT-VT-WT-F&C-FT-F&C-WT. This allows for more timing control over DRG's burstier GCDs.
  
  
• Life Surge gets a second charge, or its cooldown is further reduced (not so much as to be used on an earlier Full Thrust in constant rotation, but enough to help in cases of desync).
  
  
• Piercing Talon buffed to 20 meters' range and 250 potency. At level 54, Dragoon gains the Dragonkiller trait, causing Piercing Talon to upgrade to Dragonkiller while any normal combo is in progress. Dragonkiller deals 380 potency, with the same range.

All this is obviously subject to tuning and simulation.

I specifically did not grant a Disembowel extension buff to AoE because I prefer having to meaningfully weave in single-target damage and effects, especially now that Gierskogul is already tied to GCDs*, and AoE already thereby holds a higher Geirskogul generation efficiency (1 per 3 GCDs, up from 1 per 5). (* Yes, that will have huge tuning consequences. Alternatively the rate may be slowed, e.g. to 3 charges per Geirskogul.)

I'd prefer a bit more gameplay refinement, but this direction (not necessarily this exact implementation) seems all that is necessary to reduce DRG's melee-downtime costs and timing issues to what is reasonable.

[Renkei]

See Node #61

Click on your Link, Click View Image Location : Both of them are the same image from the same LINK i used your direct image link instead of the Page hosted image Link because the forums was having issues. I honestly didn't crop your image.
Please View Source on your Link to the image and you'll discover the link i posted to be the direct image link.

You Argued for Max, your premise was that DRG out damaging MNK on MAX damage was the reason why DRG was 3rd place in all fights, which wasn't true as proven by the Data i posted.

You say that while noting that i never previously posted a suggestion and then post the first suggestion i posted in the thread, that's a contradiction don't you think? If your claim of me not posting suggestions was true then how come you could find a suggestion of mine in the thread?


Have you been playing end game as DRG this expansion Cycle almost every fight has a long enough transition that a DRG has no choice but to lose their BotD even with perfect execution of wheeling or fang before hand until a 2 seconds.
Any Cutscene or transition that takes more then 58 seconds will force you to lose BotD and all eye stacks.

I don't think you are aware of the fact that right now, you store an extra eye on purpose delaying your Life Gauge in order to achieve 1 extra Nastrond under Lance Charge. With a Charge system since Geir and Nastrond share timers and would share timers with a charge system would result in the same Nastrod usage as 2 charges would be expended firing the Geirskogul to activate Life to Fire the Nastrod, Leaving you with 1 Charge, and 29 Seconds, Resulting a 5 second Penalty, Resulting in 24 seconds, and 3 Nastrods per Eye. Hardly additional considering you want to be able to use 6 Nastronds if possible. It would result in no over-all change in potency the only damage increase would be from not losing Eye Stacks doing Fight-Cutscenes that exceed 58 seconds.


Finally now you agree with the notion that this should be a DRG Related thread, Earlier it was being hijacked by "MNK CHANGES ONLY".

They absolutely do, You activate LoTD with 2 Eyes and Geir, then fire your first Nastrod, The Timer Goes, 30 Geir+Nastrond, wait 10 seconds, Nastrod, Wait 10 seconds Nastrod, If you changed Nastrod to a Charge it wouldn't make any difference because the duration of LoTD wouldn't be changing it would only be BOTD changing, It would just Minor Flexibility for Nastrods as the max charge of Nastrod should not Exceed 3, but should always start at 1. The Charge system was implemented for this kind of stuff it seems like.

TLDR : When you activate LOTD, Gain 1 Nastrod Charge, and 1 Nastrod Charge for every 10 seconds afterwards, Results in 3 Nastrods, LOTD 30 Second Duration is FINE, problem is BOTD Eye Dropping due to the long mid-fight cut-scenes. This allows you to fire double Back to back if STORED Nastrods if you had to before the duration ended, in case you are outside the 9 second grace period per Nastrod.


Yes i am not against increased flexibility i don't want them to increase the ceiling. the fight timings i speak of are long fight transitions where DRG has no choice sometimes but to lose BotD even at high levels of play due to the long fight cut-scenes.
The Job Mechanic is only punishing during cut-scene transitions there's no active managing at all for it outside of some 28+ second transitions. It's not rewarding and only punishing because it's so easy to keep up and maintain that fight's being designed with long-transitional cut-scenes make it litterally impossible to keep it up because they all exceed 30 seconds and DRG is unable to HOLD aura or activate it mid cut-scene causing dramatic Damage loss in fights where "Fetter, Can't Act" Debuffs are Active Which No matter your skill level on DRG you cannot prevent the loss of the Stacks.



Thank you i appreciate the Progress we now seem to be making.

Let's compile the positively received suggestions thus far:

1. By whatever means, extend F&C and WT's duration of availability to that of normal combo steps.
2. By whatever means, remove the ability to lose Eyes over long transitions (e.g. Eden Prime cutscene).
3. Further reduce certain animation locks.
4. Give some way to extend Disembowel to AoE. (Note that this would then oblige that 2+GCDs are used on non-AoEs even in AoE scenarios, DRG AoE may already be balanced around not having Disembowel, and that if Disembowel were worth maintaining in that situation then buttonflow would now be less diverse.)
5. Consolidate Mirage Dive to take the place of Jump while Jump is on cooldown, as it has no reason to be a separate key from Jump.

All other suggestions have been made with little necessary regard for balance or has been contested by other DRG mains.

1. Yes, F&C WT Duration to that of normal Combo Steps is perfectly reasonable.
2. Removing the ability to lose Eyes over long transitions yes.
3. The main offenders of this are Elusive jump and Star-Diver.
4. Considering the Limited range of Linear AOE this is reasonable.
5. Problem with this is there is parts in the 6 Nastrond Rotation that requires you to store a Mirage dive on purpose making it impossible to see your jump timer if consolidated But this is something i felt like should of been since Mirage Dives Inception, when the 4 eye window was in effect this wasn't an issue though. THIS ISSUE COULD BE FIXED WITH CHARGE NASTROND. [See above]

Generally I'd like to see the jobs design improved, If not now for Future Reference (and Expansions) and Discuss possible changes, The Developers really do listen to suggestions as the do have trouble coming up with ideas sometimes (Bard for Example).
I'd like to also see Better Disengage options and combo flexibility in the future as well.

[Shurrikhan]

Click on your Link, Click View Image Location : Both of them are the same image from the same LINK i used your direct image link instead of the Page hosted image Link because the forums was having issues. I honestly didn't crop your image.
Please View Source on your Link to the image and you'll discover the link i posted to be the direct image link.

Except they're clearly not the same image. It has most of the image seen from clicking on my link, but is then suspiciously missing the whole top bar included in each of my posts. Should I instead call it seemingly subjected to "the removal of unwanted outer areas from a photographic or illustrated image"?

You Argued for Max, your premise was that DRG out damaging MNK on MAX damage was the reason why DRG was 3rd place in all fights, which wasn't true as proven by the Data i posted.

1. That wasn't my premise.
2. DRG's power is listed in the parenthetical after every image.

You say that while noting that i never previously posted a suggestion and then post the first suggestion i posted in the thread, that's a contradiction don't you think?

I've Suggested Multiple Balance changes over the past entire Expansion Cycle Never have i suggested any raw potency changes to the job.

"Over the past expansion cycle" is not here; I clarified this because you seem to have thought that the weight of your unseen past arguments were somehow contributing to this thread. I then preceded to post every word of actual suggestions you've posted here, the limits of your actual contribution to this thread.

Have you been playing end game as DRG this expansion Cycle almost every fight has a long enough transition that a DRG has no choice but to lose their BotD even with perfect execution of wheeling or fang before hand until a 2 seconds.
Any Cutscene or transition that takes more then 58 seconds will force you to lose BotD and all eye stacks.

You honestly want to argue that "this expansion cycle almost every fight" prevents control of character for "more than 58 (consecutive) seconds"?

I don't think you are aware of the fact that right now, you store an extra eye on purpose delaying your Life Gauge in order to achieve 1 extra Nastrond under Lance Charge.

I am not aware of almost every fight denying me control of character for more than 58 consecutive seconds, but I am quite used to delaying LotD on my DRG character, yes.

With a Charge system since Geir and Nastrond share timers and would share timers with a charge system would result in the same Nastrod usage as 2 charges would be expended firing the Geirskogul to activate Life to Fire the Nastrod, Leaving you with 1 Charge, and 29 Seconds, Resulting a 5 second Penalty, Resulting in 24 seconds, and 3 Nastrods per Eye.

Geirskogul being a given a further charge would not necessitate that, with a charge system, it would share timers with Nastrond. Such would, after all, force Geirskogul to a 10-second recharge time or Nastrond to a 30-second recharge timer.

What is this "5 second penalty" you are referring to?

Do you mean "Eye" (progress step) or "Life of the Dragon" (the 30-second Geirskogul-upgrading phase activated by Gierskogul after generating the requisite number of "Eyes")?

Finally now you agree with the notion that this should be a DRG Related thread, Earlier it was being hijacked by "MNK CHANGES ONLY".

You stepped in poop, giving us 2 posts of diversion, and then insisted on rolling around in said poop to generate a further 2 pages of waste. Move on.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

It looks like there may be a lot of good that could come out of your charge idea, but it's very difficult to understand at present. Could you elaborate more clearly?

[Renkei]

Except they're clearly not the same image. It has most of the image seen from clicking on my link, but is then suspiciously missing the whole top bar included in each of my posts. Should I instead call it seemingly subjected to "the removal of unwanted outer areas from a photographic or illustrated image"?

1. That wasn't my premise.
2. DRG's power is listed in the parenthetical after every image.

"Over the past expansion cycle" is not here; I clarified this because you seem to have thought that the weight of your unseen past arguments were somehow contributing to this thread. I then preceded to post every word of actual suggestions you've posted here, the limits of your actual contribution to this thread.


You honestly want to argue that "this expansion cycle almost every fight" prevents control of character for "more than 58 (consecutive) seconds"?


I am not aware of almost every fight denying me control of character for more than 58 consecutive seconds, but I am quite used to delaying LotD on my DRG character, yes.

Geirskogul being a given a further charge would not necessitate that, with a charge system, it would share timers with Nastrond. Such would, after all, force Geirskogul to a 10-second recharge time or Nastrond to a 30-second recharge timer.

What is this "5 second penalty" you are referring to?

Do you mean "Eye" (progress step) or "Life of the Dragon" (the 30-second Geirskogul-upgrading phase activated by Gierskogul after generating the requisite number of "Eyes")?



You stepped in poop, giving us 2 posts of diversion, and then insisted on rolling around in said poop to generate a further 2 pages of waste. Move on.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

It looks like there may be a lot of good that could come out of your charge idea, but it's very difficult to understand at present. Could you elaborate more clearly?

They are the same exact image.

I Don't need to argue it because we both know that In Savage Content has unpreventable breaks in the Final Fight.

my Unseen past arguments? does making my arguments more seen somehow justify them to be more important? I am pretty sure most of them were seen whether they are popular opinion is something i don't care about, as popular opinion doesn't have to be factual as it's subjected to only being accepted by the majority regardless of it's factual significance.

Geirskogul wouldn't receive a further charge, and it already shares a timer with Nastrond, if you've done a 6 Nastrond Weave you'd be aware of this.
The Penalty you recieve from having Nastrod half off CD converts directly into Geirskoguls timer.

You are willing to use anything as a straw-man or a mote and bailey that's why you defended the MNK argument? You don't take your own behavior into account. what a double standard.

2 Pages of Waste? All you did was grab a bunch of suggestions that you claim were unseen suggested over the past 2 years and then take credit for them all on your own.

Guess you have something to wipe with after what you laid earlier.

I'll argue that lot's of fights have 58 second transitions where you cannot control your character because it's true. Play the game. E1S, E4S, E8S, Ruby Weapon, Hades, Warrior Light. All have these transitions, Not to mention both alliance raids have transitions like this too because of the long walk times in-between areas. That's 6 out 11 Fights, Making it so that most fights in this expansion factually having a transition like this.

lets Move pass all the for-mentioned Bull.

When you use Geirskogul it already shares a CD with Nastrod, You can see this if you mess up using it on purpose [or accident], effectively you can make it so Activating LIFE of the Dragon (2 Eyes > Geirskogul) Grants 1 CHARGE of Nastrond and behaves the same as other charge abilities, but only enters into charge state when Life of the dragon is activated.

The Effect would be described as this in the Tooltip.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Life of the Dragon TRAIT.

Allows for the strengthening of the gaze of the first brood upon using Mirage Dive while under the effect of Blood of the Dragon. When the gaze is its strongest (2 units), Geirskogul will grant you the Life of the Dragon status in place of Blood of the Dragon. While under the effect of Life of the Dragon, Geirskogul will change to Nastrond Resetting to 1 Charge. Life of the Dragon will revert to Blood of the Dragon when duration expires.


Nastrond 10 Seconds 3 Charge Max.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Example of Charges : 2 Eye > Geirskogul > Life of the Dragon = Charge +1 > Nastrond > Wait 10 seconds > Charge +1 > Nastrond > Wait 10 seconds > Charge +1. > Nastrond > Wait 9 seconds > Blood of the Dragon.

Effectively, entering Life of the Dragon will reset Nastrond Charge to 1 no matter what because Geirskogul by itself cannot accumulate charges. This effectively would allow you to miss an ENTIRE window of Nastronds, at the cost of 1 Nastrond, Without the same 3 second Grace Period the Current System Has.

Example of Current State : 2 Eye > Geirskogul > Life of the Dragon > Nastrond > Wait 10 seconds > Nastrond > wait 10 seconds > Nastrond > wait 9 seconds > Blood of the Dragon.

Example Of Advantages of Charge : 2 Eye > Geirskogul > Life of the Dragon = Charge +1 > Nastrond > wait 10 seconds = Charge +1> Wait 10 seconds = Charge +1 > Nastrond > Nastrond > wait 9 seconds > Blood of the Dragon > 1 second to Geirskogul.

Example Of Existing Shared Timer with Charge : 2 Eye > Geirskogul > Life of the Dragon = Charge +1 > Nastrond > wait 10 seconds = Charge +1> Wait 10 seconds = Charge +1 > Nastrond > wait 3 seconds > Nastrond > wait 6 seconds > Blood of the Dragon > 4 second to Geirskogul.


There would be no difference in potency besides being able to align burst windows with more flexibility.

The reason why Geirskogul Resets is because you wait 9 seconds, If you use Nastrod late or miss it somehow it resets at a higher duration depending on the cooldown percentage of Nastrond.

90% of 10 seconds is 1 second, 80% 2, 70% 3....ETC. This is actually a thing in game. Test it if you haven't noticed.

[Shurrikhan]

I Don't need to argue it because we both know that In Savage Content has unpreventable breaks in the Final Fight.

Your words were "almost every fight" in "this expansion Cycle". Two out of all does not make "almost every".

does making my arguments more seen somehow justify them to be more important?

It makes them part of the discussion. Admittedly, that would make it more, contextually, "important" than if... not part of the discussion.

I am pretty sure most of them were seen whether they are popular opinion is something i don't care about, as popular opinion doesn't have to be factual as it's subjected to only being accepted by the majority regardless of it's factual significance.

That sounds an awful lot like "I'm not crazy; the world is!" in this particular case.

Geirskogul wouldn't receive a further charge, and it already shares a timer with Nastrond, if you've done a 6 Nastrond Weave you'd be aware of this.
The Penalty you recieve from having Nastrod half off GCD converts directly into Geirskoguls timer.

Nastrond... isn't... a GCD skill... though?

Can any other DRG mains make sense of this part (above)?

You are willing to use anything as a straw-man or a mote and bailey that's why you defended the MNK argument? You don't take your own behavior into account. what a double standard.

I defended the argument that due research at the time of the events and at the time of my post showed to be factual. Yes, I tend to treat the factual and afactual differently, hence

2 Pages of Waste? All you did was grab a bunch of suggestions that you claim were unseen suggested over the past 2 years and then take credit for them all on your own.

I think you're fully aware I'm referring to your starting a piss-battle with the anyone who knows anything, historically, about Monks.

I never claimed those suggestions were unseen. They are all quite clearly from this thread. That is, after all, how normal discussion works. It doesn't make use of things one has variously said in other threads, unseen to those one is discussing the current topic with.

It was my attempt to try to bring some course back to the thread. Perhaps you've been saying ingenious things in your suggested charge system and I'm just too dumb to understand them. In spirit of that, might I suggest actually addressing the thread itself?

Edit: I see you've made a massive edit again. I'll read it and edit accordingly when I get a chance.

[Renkei]

I defended the argument that due research at the time of the events and at the time of my post showed to be factual. Yes, I tend to treat the factual and afactual differently, hence


I think you're fully aware I'm referring to your starting a piss-battle with the anyone who knows anything, historically, about Monks.

I never claimed those suggestions were unseen. They are all quite clearly from this thread. That is, after all, how normal discussion works. It doesn't make use of things one has variously said in other threads, unseen to those one is discussing the current topic with.

It was my attempt to try to bring some course back to the thread. Perhaps you've been saying ingenious things in your suggested charge system and I'm just too dumb to understand them. In spirit of that, might I suggest actually addressing the thread itself?

Edit: I see you've made a massive edit again. I'll read it and edit accordingly when I get a chance.

I mean OGCD 1 letter difference i think anyone that speaks English can understand that basic mess up , its 6 out of 11 fights.

Referring to the data that was so badly cherry-picked by you that you had to accuse me of doctoring out the 1 day Data, Which you still seem to believe was doctored, the Real Doctored image was the obvious image with MNK doing 999999 Damage, and DRG doing 231337 Damage, Yet you don't bring that into the discussion. I used a completely Different Up-loader to disprove your theory, and backed up the link you posted, only the final image i posted was doctored that's why i made it absolutely obvious, you stated DRG was only BEATEN BY SAM/BLM in every fight. Which was proven not true.

I Didn't even start the piss battle, Look through the posts Historically all i did was suggest and try to contribute to this thread only to defend myself against the onslaught of DRG OP MNK GIMP by no other then you. what a surprise! I don't see how you appeal to authority makes any sense because none ever do.


They are from this thread you used that point as a Mote and Bailey as mentioned earlier by me you attempt to be constructive to hide the fact that you only participate in the forums for ad hominem.
You were against those positions in earlier posts because you believed DRG was to over powered.
i am not going to point out every single node.




Lets analyze these statements.

That sounds an awful lot like "I'm not crazy; the world is!" in this particular case.

You say that with conviction like you speak for the world and for me, This is a talking point in Linguistical studies i suggest you look into it. It's the primary topic of Walter Lippmann's Public Opinion, Great piece of Literary work.
Text book Gas-lighting good-job!
If there's 10 people in a Forest, and only 2 people saw a Owl, but the other 8's opinion is that the 2 didn't see the owl, Does it make that Owl appearing Factual? popular opinion doesn't make facts.

does making my arguments more seen somehow justify them to be more important?
It makes them part of the discussion. Admittedly, that would make it more, contextually, "important" than if... not part of the discussion.

Obviously does that even need to be mentioned? but should i care whether or not you consider it seen or unseen? No.
It's important to note i said "my Unseen past arguments? does making my arguments more seen somehow justify them to be more important? I am pretty sure most of them were seen whether they are popular opinion is something i don't care about, as popular opinion doesn't have to be factual as it's subjected to only being accepted by the majority regardless of it's factual significance. "
Context is important.

I think you're fully aware I'm referring to your starting a piss-battle with the anyone who knows anything, historically, about Monks.

Because what i said was the truth? How is that a Piss-Battle? I Historically put out more accurate Monk Data in this Thread then you have! You accused me of doctoring the image you posted when i posted the direct-link instead, the only image i doctored was the one that was obviously doctored with the ridiculous damage numbers to prevent you from accusing me of doctoring your original image because I've seen you use that as a defense before.

your honestly Telling me this link https://prnt.sc/ul0l97 Posted by you, and your Link Directly Linked https://image.prntscr.com/image/ScZK...tmdKSi72xg.png Doctored? Nope.

Your Post 03:00 AM
https://prnt.sc/ul0l97
My Post 03:10 AM
https://image.prntscr.com/image/ScZK...tmdKSi72xg.png
Your Edit 03:27 AM.
https://prnt.sc/ul1235

It was my attempt to try to bring some course back to the thread. Perhaps you've been saying ingenious things in your suggested charge system and I'm just too dumb to understand them. In spirit of that, might I suggest actually addressing the thread itself?

Argumentum ad populum, Man you are full of the tricks aren't you? I knew you were full of it the moment i helped get your link working and then you accused me of cropping it.

[Shurrikhan]

@Renkai
(I apologize for taking up so much of the thread thus far; I should have thought to use hide blocks earlier.)

In full:

I mean OGCD 1 letter difference i think anyone that speaks English can understand that basic mess up , its 6 out of 11 fights.

Referring to the data that was so badly cherry-picked by you that you had to accuse me of doctoring out the 1 day Data, Which you still seem to believe was doctored, the Real Doctored image was the obvious image with MNK doing 999999 Damage, and DRG doing 231337 Damage, Yet you don't bring that into the discussion. I used a completely Different Up-loader to disprove your theory, and backed up the link you posted, only the final image i posted was doctored that's why i made it absolutely obvious, you stated DRG was only BEATEN BY SAM/BLM in every fight. Which was proven not true.

I Didn't even start the piss battle, Look through the posts Historically all i did was suggest and try to contribute to this thread only to defend myself against the onslaught of DRG OP MNK GIMP by no other then you. what a surprise! I don't see how you appeal to authority makes any sense because none ever do.


They are from this thread you used that point as a Mote and Bailey as mentioned earlier by me you attempt to be constructive to hide the fact that you only participate in the forums for ad hominem.
You were against those positions in earlier posts because you believed DRG was to over powered.
i am not going to point out every single node.




Lets analyze these statements.


You say that with conviction like you speak for the world and for me, This is a talking point in Linguistical studies i suggest you look into it. It's the primary topic of Walter Lippmann's Public Opinion, Great piece of Literary work.
Text book Gas-lighting good-job!
If there's 10 people in a Forest, and only 2 people saw a Owl, but the other 8's opinion is that the 2 didn't see the owl, Does it make that Owl appearing Factual? popular opinion doesn't make facts.



Obviously does that even need to be mentioned? but should i care whether or not you consider it seen or unseen? No.
It's important to note i said "my Unseen past arguments? does making my arguments more seen somehow justify them to be more important? I am pretty sure most of them were seen whether they are popular opinion is something i don't care about, as popular opinion doesn't have to be factual as it's subjected to only being accepted by the majority regardless of it's factual significance. "
Context is important.


Because what i said was the truth? How is that a Piss-Battle? I Historically put out more accurate Monk Data in this Thread then you have! You accused me of doctoring the image you posted when i posted the direct-link instead, the only image i doctored was the one that was obviously doctored with the ridiculous damage numbers to prevent you from accusing me of doctoring your original image because I've seen you use that as a defense before.

your honestly Telling me this link https://prnt.sc/ul0l97 Posted by you, and your Link Directly Linked https://image.prntscr.com/image/ScZK...tmdKSi72xg.png Doctored? Nope.

Your Post 03:00 AM
https://prnt.sc/ul0l97
My Post 03:10 AM
https://image.prntscr.com/image/ScZK...tmdKSi72xg.png
Your Edit 03:27 AM.
https://prnt.sc/ul1235


Argumentum ad populum, Man you are full of the tricks aren't you? I knew you were full of it the moment i helped get your link working and then you accused me of cropping it.

to prevent you from accusing me of doctoring your original image because I've seen you use that as a defense before.

You are again referring to... yourself?

Don't make me laugh you doctored that image here let me prove it!

I'm sorry if you're approaching this like I'm some end-of-story boss who doesn't even know you, but I've never accused anyone of doctoring an image. I see my link, which you accused me of doctoring, and your alleged copy of mine, and that the latter is smaller than the other. That's is all. I don't know you.

Argumentum ad populum

The context (what you've quoted of me immediately above):

It was my attempt to try to bring some course back to the thread. Perhaps you've been saying ingenious things in your suggested charge system and I'm just too dumb to understand them. In spirit of that, might I suggest actually addressing the thread itself?

This has nothing to do with argumentum ad populum; that is to argue based on what is popular. I am not arguing anything. I have explained my actions and have asked you to please write your suggestions out for anyone else in this thread, as per the purpose of this thread, since despite my best attempts to understand what it is you want, I am clearly failing.