Buffs to dragoon

[Renkei]

You're the one who pulled that single metric initially. (I presume because all other metrics contradicted your statement.)

I then argued that the Max percentile indicates nothing more than the latest luckiest/most padded run, and directed you to the tiers beneath max where your statement that DRG barely even outperformed Dancer was patently false and more recently to the fact that, sure enough, this week's Max tier has DRG within the top three jobs.

Why would I factor in min when specifically discussing max?

I'd already factored in lower tiers when last discussing that your conclusion only held water at Max rank.

My mentioning Max here was merely proof that Max varies wildly and was therefore unreliable, just as I mentioned in my first post.

No I didnt, i told you RDPS wasn't comparable in heavenward because we have no meta-data. All the Metrics didn't contradict my statement what are you even on about.

Don't make me laugh you doctored that image here let me prove it!







Your LINK http://prntscr.com/ul0l97
Your LINK https://image.prntscr.com/image/ScZK...tmdKSi72xg.png

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MY LINKS
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Are we even using the same Logs at this point????????




That last one was a joke i made up btw.

Look i don't doubt there's problems with the designs of the current fights and their accessibility for DRG and MNK because there really is. but you are barking up the wrong tree here. It'd be more productive to figure out how to get these jobs up to flexibility and snuff with the current leading jobs that don't even start to sweat in all the current end-game fights./


The problem is you argue for Max and everyone in that percentile bounce from 97 to max depending on pure sheer luck.

You seem to forget SAM and BLM are peak every-fight, Shouldn't we be on about how SAM and BLM are to Flexible and DRG and MNK lack the same flexibility?

When did IFRIT and Garuda become every fight?????????? DRG only gets third place in that one fight.

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You're the one who pulled that single metric initially. (I presume because all other metrics contradicted your statement.)

I then argued that the Max percentile indicates nothing more than the latest luckiest/most padded run, and directed you to the tiers beneath max where your statement that DRG barely even outperformed Dancer was patently false and more recently to the fact that, sure enough, this week's Max tier has DRG within the top three jobs.

Why would I factor in min when specifically discussing max?

I'd already factored in lower tiers when last discussing that your conclusion only held water at Max rank.

My mentioning Max here was merely proof that Max varies wildly and was therefore unreliable, just as I mentioned in my first post.



Is the second image supposed to be my "doctored" image, or your proof to the contrary? They're identical.

I posted the 2-week period for each fight to show why the 2nd fight so screws over DRG's overall performance, and the 1-Day overall as an image of what I mentioned earlier.
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In response to your edit:

You're mistaking consistency for hypocrisy. You made an argument. I showed you one way it didn't work in the previous post (you had argued by an extreme, conflicted across all other tiers) and mentioned a second way it would fall apart (even that highest tier will shift within a week or two). This time, I showed a third flaw in your argument (performance across a raid tier is a sum of its bosses, and a job may perform fine across the majority while still underperforming on the whole due to the one problematic fight) and gave proof of the former post's second (DRG had already gone from 4th worst to 3rd best melee).

The image function does not appear to be working, so I'll merely leave the links as to the given Max I mentioned by way of showing these things change constantly, lest you next call me a liar just because I didn't write out numbers that may or may not have actually ever been on fflogs:
http://prntscr.com/ul1235 (3rd best job overall; 2nd best melee)
https://ibb.co/WzGPZRd (2nd best melee)
http://prntscr.com/ul0yb3 (DRG's problem child fight.)
http://prntscr.com/ul0yyc (2nd best melee)
http://prntscr.com/ul0zio (Ahead of Monk)


Values not among the highest levels will change far less noticeably, so I'll still expect that anyone can look them up the other tiers for themselves.



Is the second image supposed to be my "doctored" image, or your proof to the contrary? They're identical.

I posted the 2-week period for each fight to show why the 2nd fight so screws over DRG's overall performance, and the 1-Day overall as an image of what I mentioned earlier.

Somehow the "liar!" bit took even less time than I thought. Every picture includes its frames of reference. None are doctored.

My Metrics didn't contradict themselves. Look at all your metrics in your earlier posting that is DRG rank 1 and 2 every fight? NO so what are you on about? that's a 1 day Metric TALK about cherry picking.
Most of your defense is just ad hominem, The honest fact is DRG gets ahead of MNK at 95%+ And i advocate for minor changes, I think both jobs need changes to be up to snuff Sorry it's the truth when you look at all the metrics BLM and SAM are way to flexible.

[Shurrikhan]

Your LINK http://prntscr.com/ul0l97
Your LINK https://image.prntscr.com/image/ScZK...tmdKSi72xg.png

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You're cropping my link to remove the part that clearly says "Ramuh"... why, exactly? They're literally just "All Bosses - 1 Day", "Ramuh - 2 weeks", "Ifrit & Garuda - 2 weeks", "Idol - 2 weeks", and "Shiva - 2 weeks", respectively, each at Max as stated. Why try to pretend that the bars from one belong to another?

The problem is you argue for Max and everyone in that percentile bounce from 97 to max depending on pure sheer luck.

I've not. I understand you've made your strawman very vivid for yourself, though.

It'd be more productive to figure out how to get these jobs up to flexibility and snuff with the current leading jobs that don't even start to sweat in all the current end-game fights.

By all means, then suggest as much that.

Raw potency buffs, "parrying buffs", or making it less "heavi[ly] reliant on tank positioning", however, are not the answer; outside of its worst fight per tier, Dragoon is doing fine, so raw potency is unnecessary, while your own suggestions would do virtually nothing for where DRG actually suffers.

Might I suggest evaluating the Eyes mechanic instead?

[Renkei]

You're cropping my link to remove the part that clearly says "Ramuh"... why, exactly? They're literally just "All Bosses - 1 Day", "Ramuh - 2 weeks", "Ifrit & Garuda - 2 weeks", "Idol - 2 weeks", and "Shiva - 2 weeks", respectively, each at Max as stated. Why try to pretend that the bars from one belong to another?



I've not. I understand you've made your strawman very vivid for yourself, though.


By all means, then suggest as much that.

Raw potency buffs, "parrying buffs", or making it less "heavi[ly] reliant on tank positioning", however, are not the answer; outside of its worst fight per tier, Dragoon is doing fine, so raw potency is unnecessary, while your own suggestions would do virtually nothing for where DRG actually suffers.

Might I suggest evaluating the Eyes mechanic instead?

https://image.prntscr.com/image/ScZK...tmdKSi72xg.png
http://prntscr.com/ul0l97


Your Example Of Cherry Picking, now accusing me of cropping when these are both the same link inspect the image source yourself.

I Didn't crop any of your links those were the links you posted, I saved the links you posted in an edit that you posted and now your accusing me of cropping them.

Me Stating "The problem is you argue for Max and everyone in that percentile bounce from 97 to max depending on pure sheer luck." is not anywhere close to a Straw-man It's a fact at high level of play. Because 10,000 more people play DRG then MNK it makes it highly more likely that DRG will slightly Edge out MNK Statiically because the Sample Size is bigger. How is that a Straw-man when its actual factual math?

I've Suggested Multiple Balance changes over the past entire Expansion Cycle Never have i suggested any raw potency changes to the job.

The only thing that actually needs to be changed is for DRG and MNK to have their Stacks not on a timer so they aren't LOST. most jobs permanently store their job resources except these two jobs. (and DRGS 10 second Wheeling And Fang and Claw needs to be 15 second to match all other procs in the game being 15 seconds.)

Remove Antaman, and Remove Blood of the dragon. or extend the duration of the effects to match Ninjas Huton. PROBLEM SOLVED. The Problem is DRG's Geir and Nastrod rely on this timer instead of having charges for some strange reason. either reverse the flow of the aura in question, or make it so the aura has to be reapplied or remove the timer, there's plenty of ways to improve these designs it's not a problem with just MONK this problem exists with the lower half of jobs in the game

DRG's eye mechanic behaves just like Charges DO.

[Shurrikhan]

now your accusing me of cropping them.

Look at the link on my page. Look at the link on yours. Mine clearly includes additional height, labeling exactly where that parse came from, rather than obscuring anything. Yours purposely leaves this out.

The problem is you argue for Max

(Emphasis my own.) Therein lies your strawman. I've never argued for Max. I've spent three posts now arguing why you shouldn't have done so in the first place.

I've Suggested Multiple Balance changes over the past entire Expansion Cycle Never have i suggested any raw potency changes to the job.

Spare me the righteous indignation when you weren't previously willing to post those actual suggestions here. I'm not about to search your entire post history for them. Thus far we've had only (1) you implying that DRG has been historically and remains currently shorted in terms of raw power, defensive or offensive, and (2) your first post:

I think so too but they won't do anything interesting with it until next expansion. it needs some type of parrying system built into it like samurai, something to give it bigger skill ceiling instead of the linear combat with the impossible to fill conditions, true north alone isn't enough for them, I like dragoon a lot and i want it to be good, it kind of has the issues that melee has in this game being heavily reliant on tank positioning and ranged positioning in order to "excel" but then ultimately does middle of the pack damage even when conditions are right. I wish it had extra reach, and the same attention as the other melee jobs as they tend to be adjusted always before dragoon does unfortunately.

The only thing that actually needs to be changed is for DRG and MNK to have their Stacks not on a timer so they aren't LOST.

Let's stick to DRG, as this is a DRG thread.

BotD cannot be lost except to extremely long cutscenes. Its cooldown is notably shorter than its duration. This isn't a problem even for the most casual of DRGs.

While removing BotD or reducing it to a trait would be a QoL improvement, it wouldn't change DRG's performance in any way.

The Problem is DRG's Geir and Nastrod rely on this timer instead of having charges for some strange reason.

Removing BotD would give no reason to allow you multiple charges of Geirskogul or Nastrond.

Having multiple charges of Geirskogul would be, in effect, a potency buff, as it'd allow an additional Geirskogul or Nastrond under each Lance Charge. It's true that it'd allow them far more flexibility, but it'd also offer them more damage under burst windows and thereby increase their maximum damage potential, which isn't particularly short as is. Some certain iteration of this may be an excellent idea, but I'd need to know more of what you intend.

I ask largely because I also have to worry you don't actually mean "charges"... See below.

DRG's eye mechanic behaves just like Charges DO.

They quite clearly do not; charges are multiples of an initial cooldown, allowing for 2 or 3 of the same ability to be cast in succession and increasing how much time an ability can store accordingly. Perhaps you're thinking of "progress steps" or the like?

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tl;dr: Putting aside for now what would necessarily offer increased ppm (as DRG is far enough behind, on average, to allow for some increases there, but that's a numbers issue for after we've nailed down intended gameplay changes), it seems that you want increased flexibility (as to be less punishable by unfortunate fight timings) and more intuitive design, possibly with a less punishing job mechanic? Am I understanding that correctly?