Online store prices are outrageously high!

[Kes13a]

And then I see people not just going along with that incessant greed but actively defending it. Are you all shareholders? lol And the tired ol' excuse of 'it's a business!'. Because earning earning unfathomable amounts of money isn't enough, they must earn all the money in the universe (and monthly).

On an unrelated note, Starbucks' coffee is disgusting. There, I said it. lol

Let's be real here. The prices could double overnight and we'd still have plenty of people here defending it, because that defines a fanboy. Fair enough. To each their own. But don't expect other people to not rattle that cage of yours every time that happens.

So what proof do you have that they are raking in "unfathomable amounts of money"? And you may not like the concept but it IS a business. and businesses like to make profit, its that simple. So please, I would like to see proof of their incredible profit margins. Thank you in advance.

sorry to pop your bubble but the game I was a 'fangirl' for died before this game was even created and ir broke any faith or loyalty I had to companies in general. What I do respect is that its their market, they can charge whatever they want because I have no clue what it cost to develop the item and neither do you. but if I dont want to pay x amount for it, I wont, its that simple.

If it is something I have to have, then I will either wait for a sale or *gasp* save for it or give up something else to get it.

anyway, when you get the proof please be sure to post it since I am sure I am not the only one interested in it. Thank you ^^

[Krotoan]

But it isn't just me. I'm not the one who started the thread. Nor am I one of the many other people who have all pointed out how over-priced these items are. Plenty of people have pointed this out. So that's not true.

A small number of people being prepared to overpay for something doesn't make a market nor define how the majority think.

But you aren't the majority. If you were the shop would have died. It's evident by just walking around the game that plenty of people pay for these things. Not a minority.

"you have a problem" meaning you are one of the few who sits there and complains that things cost to much while everyone else either buys the items or leaves them be.

The reasons being used to try and defend the prices make no sense. People are saying things like 'I usually buy a Starbucks drink for $6 so paying $6 for an emote (or whatever) is fine. I'll just go without my Starbucks drink for a day.'

But Starbucks is literally the go-to example when people talk about how over-priced street shop drinks are. Defending over-paying for one thing because you usually over-pay for another thing doesn't make it okay.

And the argument that the drinks aren't over-priced as Starbucks is a successful company so the market is happy to pay their prices isn't valid either. There are 7.6 billion people on the planet. Only a tiny minority of those think paying exorbitant prices for a drink is okay. But enough do to keep the company in business. Doesn't stop Starbucks having their deserved reputation for over-priced drinks no matter what the 'market' says.

Fine. lets detach this from starbucks since you fixated on it. Take the bus one day. There you saved 5-10 dollars in gas. Skip eating fast food for a day or two and eat something homemade. There you saved 8-15 dollars. Much of the population that plays these games pays for convenience and luxury daily. It is a budget and you could manage it if you paid attention to where your money was going.

Also it's provable that the items are over-priced. Many, many games give you much more for less money or at least comparable items for less.

Such.. as? Remember some of those games the character/job/server systems are much less robust. One character in FFXIV is enough to experience everything the game has to offer as far as content.

The retainer situation alone isn't something optional or vanity. It's literally influencing game design. Every serious crafter can attest to that. It is not optional. lol

It is a convenience. It can be worked around with large amounts of gil to buy mats (earnable in game and quite easy to do) and gathering specific mats as you need them (god forbid you play the game instead of just hoard stuff).

On a related note, it's true that demand and availability dictate the price (duh) but I'm
a firm believer in educating people in hopes
it changes how they perceive something. You can't look at the state of the industry now and how it used to be and tell me that shit hasn't hit the fan so hard these last years that the fan stopped working a long time ago.

While there are several companies out there pushing the boundaries of what is a game and what is a slot machine. FFXIV right now is not there. Or even close. It has a set market with no RNG and a pretty consistent price point.
Pushing back against ANY change because other companies are doing worse things is senseless. I do remember games from the beginning and honestly the options and quality of games have progressed so much.

And then I see people not just going along with that incessant greed but actively defending it. Are you all shareholders? lol And the tired ol' excuse of 'it's a business!'. Because earning earning unfathomable amounts of money isn't enough, they must earn all the money in the universe (and monthly).

Just because someone points out that something is a reasonable pricepoint and explains how markets work.. doesn't mean they're shills. Has SE done some questionable things? Sure. Would I trust them to make the best decision for MY interests every time? Hell no. Are they currently running a absolute money sink of a game? Nope.

On an unrelated note, Starbucks' coffee is disgusting. There, I said it. lol

People who drink starbucks don't actually like coffee. They like starbucks drinks. Like drinking candy bars. They haven't run a business on black or simple cream and sugar drinks for a while.

Let's be real here. The prices could double overnight and we'd still have plenty of people here defending it, because that defines a fanboy. Fair enough. To each their own. But don't expect other people to not rattle that cage of yours every time that happens.

Rattle the cage? Sure. Whine that you cannot afford something that is currently a reasonable and market accepted price? Nah, you're getting backlash.

[Lubu_Mykono]

1. oh dear, at best 50 cents a DAY to play something as much as you want. what a crime.
2. established precedent in mmos, check out World of Warcraft sometime if you dont believe me.
3. again, see 2 for precedent. prices of labour rise, so too development costs, yet the price is reasonable for what you receive. they bank on volume
4. you get 2 for FREE. so no, the game doesnt make you pay for more, thats optional. inventory management on the otherhand, is usually up to the player.

these are optional items. which part of OPTIONAL are you having trouble with? here, if it helps any:

optional
[ op-shuh-nl ]

adjective
left to one's choice; not required or mandatory: Formal dress is optional.
leaving something to choice.

1. Most MMOS/mulitplayer games these days are free-to-play and have cash shops, Why should a sub based one be allowed to have one if it's cash shop is just as bad? You are spending money to have ACCESS to a cash shop?

2. Wake up, this is 2020. It is not a precedent in MMOS anymore. WoW is 16 years old, this is basically 10. Every new game is B2P or F2P and monetisation that way, not sub based.

3. How do you know exact costs? You don't know work for them. All they have released publicly is the game is getting more popular (therefore more sub income) but the cash shop only keeps getting worse and worse?

4. 2 Retainers is not nearly enough compared to people with 7 - 8 that craft a lot. Alot of the high value items e.g. furniture sit on the market for months on end. If you're an endgame crafterMore retainers you have the more gil you can make it's pretty simple

[Kes13a]

1. Most MMOS/mulitplayer games these days are free-to-play and have cash shops, Why should a sub based one be allowed to have one if it's cash shop is just as bad? You are spending money to have ACCESS to a cash shop?

2. Wake up, this is 2020. It is not a precedent in MMOS anymore. WoW is 16 years old, this is basically 10. Every new game is B2P or F2P and monetisation that way, not sub based.

3. How do you know exact costs? You don't know work for them. All they have released publicly is the game is getting more popular (therefore more sub income) but the cash shop only keeps getting worse and worse?

4. 2 Retainers is not nearly enough compared to people with 7 - 8 that craft a lot. Alot of the high value items e.g. furniture sit on the market for months on end. If you're an endgame crafterMore retainers you have the more gil you can make it's pretty simple

lol, okay then,

1. most games these days, especially f2p, use their cash shop to generate profit. plain and simple. most of their offerings come from rng loot boxes. there is a MINISCULE chance to get what you actually want from these boxes so you are FORCED to buy more and more. These items are generally accepted to be REQUIRED to play or get ahead in the game. (required means you HAVE to buy them, as in non optional). FF xiv charges a sub, and sell OPTIONAL (not required to play) items. you might as well ask why professional sports teams can sell merch, they are sports teams, not seamstresses. your subscription gets you access yes, but if you dont subscribe to the game, why would you buy anything there?

2. lol, starting to get a little touchy I see. thats fine, you have every right to be given your viewpoint.

3. I dont, point is, NEITHER DO YOU. I dont think sub income is exactly the cash cow you assume it is. by the way, dont trot out the 20 million blather, we are talking ACTIVELY paying subs

4. I know all about retainers. I also know mine hold a lot of old garbage and materials I am too much of a packrat to do without or throw out. however, I certainly do not believe for a second that my world as an end game crafter would be crippled if I had less retainers. I would just have to manage things better.

[JTF-Taru]

snip

Comparable for what purpose? Items sold in the FFXIV Online Store are made for your FFXIV characters. Other items that cannot be used by your FFXIV characters because they are made for other games are irrelevant regardless of what they cost.

It's not subjective, it's objective. People know what DLC costs and comparable items are not usually this expensive. Companies make their own products and people compare similar items from different companies. According to your logic, no one can ever compare similar phones, cars, chocolate, clothes or anything else made by different companies because they aren't precisely identical.

None of the thousands of YouTube videos comparing mobile phones (or anything else) with similar specs. are valid according to you. None of the industry magazines comparing different brands with similar builds are valid according to you. No one in the history of the planet has ever accurately compared anything according to you because the things they were comparing weren't precisely identical, therefore comparisons aren't allowed.

This is ridiculous and wouldn't be accepted in any other walk of life. If you think otherwise, go and post on 100 YouTube videos of someone comparing phones or whatever that comparing things isn't allowed because the products aren't branded the same and aren't identical and the production costs aren't mentioned etc... and see what reactions you get.

Anything that sells in the Mog Station has comparable DLC in many other games. The concepts are well know (clothing, emotes, mounts etc.) People are entitled to compare like for like and the ones here are more than you'd expect to pay. Which is why so many people are speaking out about this.

Goodness gracious, way to miss my entire point. Nobody needs Mogstation items to play this game. SE even made that point very clear on their banner once you hit the Mogstation page that the items are OPTIONAL ITEMS. If you're arguing just to argue, you're doing a very poor job at it.

I made no insults. The fact you think I did is another you problem. Not me.

Nobody missed your point. You didn't make any valid points. The thing you said was specifically responded to and rejected. The notion that there is a difference between things you need and don't need isn't valid. The concept of being ripped off applies equally to both. Didn't you read where I discussed that? You certainly did make insults. If you can't remember what you wrote and (as illustrated above) you can't remember what I wrote, then it's fairly clear who has the problem and who is arguing for the sake of it.

[JTF-Taru]

But you aren't the majority. If you were the shop would have died. It's evident by just walking around the game that plenty of people pay for these things... *snip*

As has already been said, you don't need a majority to keep an online shop going. They don't sell a physical product or a service. It's just code – there's an infinite supply. You can keep a site like that open with a tiny minority especially when you have income from so many other sources.

And many of those who do use the site, openly admit it's over-priced, but make excuses for buying anyway.

I don't have a problem nor am I complaining. I'm doing what you're supposed to do here which is post in FFXIV related threads that interest you. You're the one with the problem complaining about people doing that.

Fine. lets detach this from starbucks since you fixated on it. Take the bus one day. There you saved 5-10 dollars in gas. Skip eating fast food for a day or two and eat something homemade. There you saved 8-15 dollars. Much of the population that plays these games pays for convenience and luxury daily. It is a budget and you could manage it if you paid attention to where your money was going.

What has any of that got to do with anything? Someone else brought up that something in the Mog Station costs the same as a Starbucks drink and I pointed out that Starbucks drinks are literally a mainstream example of something that is over-priced. I turned their own point against them by highlighting how 'the market' can keep a company in business but that company can still have a reputation for being over-priced. Just like the Mog Station.

As for budgeting, that makes even less sense. I have a well paid job and could afford now to buy everything in the Mog Station. I don't like being ripped off so I won't buy anything.

Not liking being ripped off /= being poor necessarily.

To Krotoan, Violet_Galaxy, Kes13a and any others, you're just posting the same things over and over which is just necessitating the same replies. Your arguments have been responded to and rejected.

The market keeping a site in business does not mean what the site sells isn't over-priced. The example of Starbucks highlights a company that has a reputation for over-priced goods yet stays in business.

It's not valid to say people can't compare FFXIV DLC with DLC from any other site. Humans compare things all the time from different brands and models.

You don't need a majority to keep a site like the Mog Station open. It sells DLC. Not products or services. It only needs a small number of sales to keep it open, especially when the company that owns it has multiple revenue sources.

If you don't like the fact people are going to highlight the high prices of the Mog Station, I suggest just staying out of this thread. That's where those people are most likely to be.

[Krotoan]

As has already been said, you don't need a majority to keep an online shop going. They don't sell a physical product or a service. It's just code – there's an infinite supply. You can keep a site like that open with a tiny minority especially when you have income from so many other sources.

However they employ modelers, concept artists, coders and QA. Believe me that in a business like that anyone who is dead weight is quickly snipped. If the store wasn't bringing in at least those peoples salaries, let alone a profit enough to do things like upgrading servers, they would have closed down long ago.

And many of those who do use the site, openly admit it's over-priced, but make excuses for buying anyway.

Sounds like it's not over priced then, cause they're still willing to buy things.

I don't have a problem nor am I complaining. I'm doing what you're supposed to do here which is post in FFXIV related threads that interest you. You're the one with the problem complaining about people doing that.

I'm responding to the OP who was whining about how something is too costly and that it should be on sale more often. You came in and tried to argue that they ARE too expensive. Do you remember that part? Sure you're posting in the thread and contributing and I wouldn't dream of telling you to stop giving your opinion.. but I will give mine back.

What has any of that got to do with anything? Someone else brought up that something in the Mog Station costs the same as a Starbucks drink and I pointed out that Starbucks drinks are literally a mainstream example of something that is over-priced. I turned their own point against them by highlighting how 'the market' can keep a company in business but that company can still have a reputation for being over-priced. Just like the Mog Station.

My point being that the prices are similar to everyday conveniences and things you pay for. Experiences that last minutes. If something everyone says is "overpriced" still sells and turns a satisfactory profit for the company, that means the market supports it. That's how economics work.

As for budgeting, that makes even less sense. I have a well paid job and could afford now to buy everything in the Mog Station. I don't like being ripped off so I won't buy anything.


Not liking being ripped off /= being poor necessarily.

Good for you. Several thousand people have average jobs and still see the value in the items for sale and buy them.
Saying you're being ripped off when the market clearly supports the pricing and hollering that everyone else should think the same hints that maybe you need some perspective on the actual value of items.

To Krotoan, Violet_Galaxy, Kes13a and any others, you're just posting the same things over and over which is just necessitating the same replies. Your arguments have been responded to and rejected.

By you. Great. This doesn't mean they're wrong.. or right really.. just that you cannot accept them.

It's not valid to say people can't compare FFXIV DLC with DLC from any other site. Humans compare things all the time from different brands and models.

And comparing very different things with a few similarities is a bad comparison.

You don't need a majority to keep a site like the Mog Station open. It sells DLC. Not products or services. It only needs a small number of sales to keep it open, especially when the company that owns it has multiple revenue sources.

If you don't like the fact people are going to highlight the high prices of the Mog Station, I suggest just staying out of this thread. That's where those people are most likely to be.

I've already pointed out that if the mogstation represents it's own department with it's own staff that need to be paid. If they were making little to no sales the idea would have been scrapped.
I don't have an aversion to hearing complaints about the price, I'm here, like you, to discuss my POV on how they're wrong. I also like to point out to people that they're being very silly about reasonable prices by providing perspective on what they pay every day/week/month for far less value.

[ForteNightshade]

On you last point you said yourself that -nearly- every publisher does that. So some are pushing the envelope then. That's exactly what I said. Give it another few years and it will become the norm because you're apparently not allowed to speak out against greed.

We have been waiting five years for this doom and gloom scenario of SE arbitrarily increasing Mogstation prices. It still hasn't happened yet. Every single item has kept a standardized pricing model unless they offered something extra. Speaking more broadly on the industry itself, people have pushed back. Look at Star Wars:Battlefront 2 and lootboxes in general. EA tried to push that envelop and it cross enough of a line people revolted. They backpedaled hard.

Typically, loot boxes and P2W advantages are what garner people's disdain, which FFXIV partakes in neither. What frustrates people isn't complaining that SE is greedy but that literally every single time a new Mogstation item releases, we go through this same song and dance. After five years, it gets a little old.

Publishers also love to say that gaming has gone up in cost, but I'd argue that I, first off, never asked them to make everything photo realistic, nor to spend two thirds of the budget for PR and trailers to generate hype. (That's some real contempt for your audience there, if you think that dangling a few shiny keys in front of them will distract them long enough so they'll forget that the trailer actually didn't contain any gameplay - and preorder. SE certainly is no stranger to that)

The operative word being "I". While you may not care for hyper realistic graphics, a lot of people do. Hell, people criticism FFXIV for not having enough voice acting. The whole shift towards more expensive industry standards was due to demand. A large enough demographic want extreme graphical fidelity, voice acting and etc. Dangling a shiny trailer and building hype for a product that may not live up to said up isn't unique to the gaming industry though. They all do it.

And another point in conjunction with my last statement: we're going more and more digital. There are less manufacturing costs. When was the last time as a PC player you even got a disk with your purchase? Weird that publishers never mention that side, too.

We really can't say if they profit off lessening manufacturing costs or if its been accounted for elsewhere. To give an idea though, SE spent $400M on 1.0; $600M on FFXV. For perspective sake, FFX had a development cost of $50M. This right here is precisely why micro-transaction and DLC exist. They literally couldn't sustain the current development costs without additional revenue from somewhere. On a sidenote, I never knew their budget was apparently that high. What a spectacular failure that was. No wonder SE was nearly bankrupted back then...

And how do you explain indie games like Hollow Knight or Spiritfarer (both damn good btw)?

A different market? Indie games rarely make anywhere close to what AAA do. Of course, that speaks nothing to their quality but they typically get more of a niche following.

One could even say this over-reliance on generating ludicrous amounts of money is they reason why this game gets more and more boring. Broadest common denominator. So that Timmy-ten-thumb and Melissa-mindless can sub too. I'm not saying there is no place for them but if you bring pretty much down everything aside from raids to keep them subbed I think there is a problem. The last point is an exaggeration, granted, but I don't think I'm too far off.

I think it boils down to seeing the bigger picture here. No action happens in a vacuum.
I hope I was able to make my points clear, even if it was a bit rambly. ^^

Unfortunately, I can't entire disagree. In fact, a big criticism I have towards Shadowbringers is how dumbed down a lot of aspects feel because the dev team focused on accessibility to the point of extreme. But the reality is, they are a business. Profit will always drive them. Granted, we really can't fault SE entirely here. Some of these decisions (general job homogenization, poor healer design and etc. ) are strictly a design choice. Not a financial one.

I do agree, everything happens in a vacuum. Likewise, I also think the game industry as a whole has pushed things too far. I just don't feel FFXIV has in that regard. Even if I do have my criticisms of the Mogstation.

[MsMisato]

Whats funny about this whole debate/thread/whatnots regarding the pricing. The pricing was set when the players starting spouting off how much they would pay for fantasia when optional items only consisted of name changes and server changes. People were shouting out garbage prices like 10, 20, 30 bucks. for a pot of fantasia to be sold. The precedent was set. and know we got a glamour shop essentially. We also got a way to get previous event items if we missed out on an event for the most part, exception is the super popular collab events like Yokai, Garo, and the FFXV crossover.

I am just glad its not a loot box based cash shop and the item doesn't affect the gameplay itself like some games cash shops do. I also get its a sub based game, however, as I pointed out, non of the items impact your character stat or gameplay wise nor does it add any additional content like missions, quests, additional storyline. The item shop is purely fluff with the exception of the story and level skip pots which those will not go away because I imagine they make quite a bit off those. This doesn't mean I agree with the price but at least I know what I am getting exactly.

[linayar]

It's not subjective, it's objective. People know what DLC costs and comparable items are not usually this expensive. Companies make their own products and people compare similar items from different companies. According to your logic, no one can ever compare similar phones, cars, chocolate, clothes or anything else made by different companies because they aren't precisely identical.

No, by my logic, the comparison is only valid if you're going to quit the game over this, otherwise it's useless.

But if you're comparing optional items on the store over which game to play, then your problem is not really with the store items, but with the game itself.

But if you're going to continue playing the game, then the comparison is irrelevant. What are you going to do? Play another game just so you can buy their cheaper store items while still also playing FFXIV but not buy its store items? I mean, you can do that, but that doesn't affect the store items in FFXIV.