FFXIV is too simplistic and bland

[Kiurai]

I'd say modern FFXI would be less time consuming than it's original incarnation. XI and XIV dont demand the same time from you, you can't really dispute that. My main gripe with OP's point is that he hits at fundamental game design that isn't so easily changed without effecting almost every system. If he was just asking for more engaging FATE content or more interesting quests alright you got a point some may disagree but atleast it's a more solid argument than some of his other points. The travel section for example needs to go. It's literally asking to hide loading screens not much magic in that.

[tymora]

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that an experience like XI's itself requires massive amounts of playtime per week, or even necessarily large chunks at a time, to enjoy.

There was a time when in FFXI, 5k exp/hour is considered awesome. It takes months to finish level up one class/job to level cap.
There was a time when relics cost an obscene amount of playtime to complete. Mine took 2, almost 3 years.
There was a time when people spend 3 hours camping a single HNM...for a ~5% drop rate.
There was a time when drop rates are so pitiful, people wait in line for months, even years to get their turn for an item. People come up with distribution systems that require player participation (i.e. time). If you don't put in the "massive" amounts of playtime, expect to wait a long time too.
There was a time when you need a party to level up. So some people spend ages waiting...(in Jeuno)...for parties...and no there was no party finder.
There was a time when running a dungeon needs you to walk up to the actual entrance of a dungeon.
There was a time when HNMs are locked behind zone barriers, in zones filled with lethal mobs. Just getting a group to the HNM takes an hour or two.

[Connor]

Or why not both? Why focus purely on the negatives of either game when you could work to incorporate the positives of both?

They’ve made some attempts to do this kind of thing before. In FFXI, everything now is pretty quick, even relics take like 2-3 months at the most (and many are still considered the best equipment in the game for the job). They added daily levequest style objectives, they rotate monthly boss fights that you can do at your own leisure, alone or with a party. All content in FFXI, or at least the majority of it, can be done solo now (because of Trusts).

FFXIV took elements from FFXI and incorporated them into Eureka content. Joining groups to do overworld content with others, penalties for deaths (exp loss), some slight options on how to play your character with the Logos Actions (similar to FFXI’s subclass system), and long-term gear progression with the way relics work.

Neither of these attempts were perfect of course, but I’m just saying that maybe instead of trying to pick the ‘better of the two’, we should look at positives and negatives of both. Why settle for one when you can have the best of both worlds? SE is in a fairly unique position with two concurrent MMOs that are both have strong fanbases but entirely different game play styles. Surely it makes sense that if they took what was good from one and incorporated it into the other, it would create two well-rounded and balanced MMOs? Not that they should just copy-paste systems, I just mean conceptually. FFXI could benefit from the ‘simplicity’ of FFXIV; FFXIV could benefit from the ‘complexity’ of FFXI.

I think that looking at FFXI and FFXIV as equals rather than competitors would benefit both games. They’re both good in their own way. If you ask me, the real question is: how could those ways fit into the other game to improve it long-term?

[Shurrikhan]

There was a time when in FFXI, 5k exp/hour is considered awesome. It takes months to finish level up one class/job to level cap.
There was a time when relics cost an obscene amount of playtime to complete. Mine took 2, almost 3 years.
There was a time when people spend 3 hours camping a single HNM...for a ~5% drop rate.
There was a time when drop rates are so pitiful, people wait in line for months, even years to get their turn for an item. People come up with distribution systems that require player participation (i.e. time). If you don't put in the "massive" amounts of playtime, expect to wait a long time too.
There was a time when you need a party to level up. So some people spend ages waiting...(in Jeuno)...for parties...and no there was no party finder.
There was a time when running a dungeon needs you to walk up to the actual entrance of a dungeon.
There was a time when HNMs are locked behind zone barriers, in zones filled with lethal mobs. Just getting a group to the HNM takes an hour or two.

And did the existence of those pieces of content and their limitations prevent people with less than two hours at a time to spend from enjoying the game on the whole?

Did never hitting cutting edge raiding prevent your typical player from enjoying the game?

Is a journey so impossible to enjoy satisfactorily so long as its ending isn't easily accessible to everyone?

For my own part, I'd rather that the processes were enjoyable than that I am necessarily able to complete everything there is on offer while working a full-time job.

And the funny thing is that, for the most part, having an enjoyable process and a sense of accessibility aren't even mutually exclusive, so long as you don't mistake enjoyability for a matter of percents and quotas. That Ultimate exists outside my reach (or, for that matter, desires) doesn't devalue what is in my reach except by consequence of development time spent -- and there's no way my range of desired content is going to take advantage of the expertise of those battle designers or of reused assets to the extent that Ultimate would, so I'm not about to begrudge them something that, even given the relatively small population of those interested in Ultimate vicarious, or the even smaller population of those actually progressing through it, is ultimately still efficient.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

And did the existence of those pieces of content and their limitations prevent people with less than two hours at a time to spend from enjoying the game on the whole?

Did never hitting cutting edge raiding prevent your typical player from enjoying the game?

Is a journey so impossible to enjoy satisfactorily so long as its ending isn't easily accessible to everyone?

For my own part, I'd rather that the processes were enjoyable than that I am necessarily able to complete everything there is on offer while working a full-time job.

And the funny thing is that, for the most part, having an enjoyable process and a sense of accessibility aren't even mutually exclusive, so long as you don't mistake enjoyability for a matter of percents and quotas. That Ultimate exists outside my reach (or, for that matter, desires) doesn't devalue what is in my reach except by consequence of development time spent -- and there's no way my range of desired content is going to take advantage of the expertise of those battle designers or of reused assets to the extent that Ultimate would, so I'm not about to begrudge them something that, even given the relatively small population of those interested in Ultimate vicarious, or the even smaller population of those actually progressing through it, is ultimately still efficient.

Considering I wasn't even able to make it out of the level 20 area for lack of being able to find leveling parties yes, it did impact my enjoyment of the game lol.

[Iscah]

I know for a fact that people said the same when 1.0 was released. lol
Heaven forfend someone make suggestions. It's not like you need to take everything at face value.

So when am I allowed to suggest then? When the seasoning is bland? lol The forum was made for suggestions. Nevertheless, you dare criticise and you get a lot of people up in arms with pitchforks. But try see it from a different view. Maybe it's -because- people like the game a lot that they are making these suggestions. As much fun as XIV can be, it's seriously wasting its potential in places.

Ah, well. Here's hoping for 6.0.

To continue the restaurant analogy, the 1.0 restaurant was widely disliked. Not enough people thought the food was good enough and the whole venture was going to fail. They close down for a while, get a new chef and redesign the menu, and relaunch.

Now? There are a lot of people attending and they seem to be happy with what's on offer. One customer comes in talking about how the food is terrible and they should change XYZ to be more like the other restaurant down the street.

Why should that customer be listened to over the large number of people who seem to be enjoying themselves?

It's different if lots of people are making the same complaint. This particular OP is one person coming back every month or so and complaining about it every time.


Edit to add: It's not even about one game being objectively better than the other. They are two separate games doing things in different ways, and thus appealing to people who like different gameplay styles. If one should change to be the same as the other, all that means is that now there are two games catering to one group's taste, and the other group has lost the thing that they liked.

[Payadopa]

Or why not both? Why focus purely on the negatives of either game when you could work to incorporate the positives of both?

Couldn't agree more. ^^b

[MonteCristo]

Agree with OP....Hoping the next mmo returns more to its roots because honestly this game feels more like its evolved into something unrelated rather than traditional final fantasy. Role playing and glamour completely overshadow endgame

[Payadopa]

To continue the restaurant analogy, the 1.0 restaurant was widely disliked. Not enough people thought the food was good enough and the whole venture was going to fail. They close down for a while, get a new chef and redesign the menu, and relaunch.

Now? There are a lot of people attending and they seem to be happy with what's on offer. One customer comes in talking about how the food is terrible and they should change XYZ to be more like the other restaurant down the street.

Why should that customer be listened to over the large number of people who seem to be enjoying themselves?

It's different if lots of people are making the same complaint. This particular OP is one person coming back every month or so and complaining about it every time.

I think that's a fair assessment. For me personally, though,these things start to add up. I just hope the devs revert a few changes (e.g. healers) or improve on concepts (e.g. Eureka).

To achieve cosmic balance, what I do like is what they did with the quest in 5.0.

See, I'm the lore guy in our FC (read, neeeerd) and I appreciate the effort that went into them from a lore perspective or the fact that a select few don't tell you what to do so you actually need to pay attention which is actually really rare in XIV outside of current content fights/crafting. And arguably not even then.

[Vyrerus]

Questing in FFXI sucked donkey nuts. Most quests were boring and uninspired and did not tell you what you needed to do at all, most of the time. Oh sure, sometimes they were simple enough cause how vague can you really get about, "Go kill two bats and bring me their wings." But my god man...

Then there was the fame system which basically amounted to either farming the same item 400~500 times and trading it in, one at a time, plus the traversal time to and from the farm spot or Auction House, but also the sheer stupidity of the fame recorder's sayings about you becoming the talk of the town as a grand hero. Like, I'm sure giving 400 beastmen necklaces to some swivin' cat thief is sure to get people talking about you... but as a grand hero? Really? Meh.

Quest rewards also sucked 9/10 times. No EXP rewards. Only items and/or gil. Occasionally things like beastmen currency or seals, but not often. Any of the useful rewards quests repeatable? No, not unless they involved an equally absurd farming method.

Don't forget about waiting for JP midnight or the full moon or the waxing gibbous 78%. Don't forget about, oh shit, it's Firesday, now my Paralysis spells have a higher chance of failing, since they're Ice elemental.

FFXI was an amazing and fantastic and a mess. Its questing was in the mess category.