FFXIV is too simplistic and bland

[DrWho2010]

And did the existence of those pieces of content and their limitations prevent people with less than two hours at a time to spend from enjoying the game on the whole?

If I've spent my two hours i have to play that day and accomplished nothing I consider that a complete waste of my time and thus reduce my enjoyment of the game that day (and possibly sour the next time i'm able to play as well).

Did never hitting cutting edge raiding prevent your typical player from enjoying the game?

What the "typical player" wants is entirely too subjective a idea to assign enjoyment of the game and encompasses too many variables to gauge said enjoyment. That being said if i was a savage raider and was forced to step back from the scene because of other obligations my personal enjoyment factor would be affected.

Is a journey so impossible to enjoy satisfactorily so long as its ending isn't easily accessible to everyone?

Again a very subjective thing.

an enjoyable process and a sense of accessibility aren't even mutually exclusive

IMO they are very intrinsically linked.

so long as you don't mistake enjoyability for a matter of percents and quotas.

again this is your opinion, which not everyone else would share.

[Shurrikhan]

There was a time when
There was a time when
There was a time when
There was a time when
There was a time when
There was a time when
There was a time when

And yet none of those things are true now, so why would we say that a more involved or fleshed out open world experience, for instance, requires a lack of QoL features or painfully long grinds?

Considering I wasn't even able to make it out of the level 20 area for lack of being able to find leveling parties yes, it did impact my enjoyment of the game lol.

And again, is that because the game was fundamentally dependent on lack of QoL features, or was that just a failing of the time (that has since been addressed)?

Does "Open World is relevant for more than just as long as it takes to do the relevant MSQ and, if thus obliged, grind its limited rewards" = "You can't get past level 20" ?

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

And yet none of those things are true now, so why would we say that a more involved or fleshed out open world experience, for instance, requires a lack of QoL features or painfully long grinds?



And again, is that because the game was fundamentally dependent on lack of QoL features, or was that just a failing of the time (that has since been addressed)?

Does "Open World is relevant for more than just as long as it takes to do the relevant MSQ and, if thus obliged, grind its limited rewards" = "You can't get past level 20" ?

The problem there is, people tend to tell you xi was only good during that era, and that all of the qol ruined the game. So yes, I'm basing my experience off of what people say was xis best.

[Payadopa]

I mean, not saying you or the OP are wrong about some of the points made, but I'm not really sure what you expect. FF14 is 7+ years old now and what you're asking for are for the devs to essentially scrap major elements of the game and go (back) to something else. Frankly, the game isn't going to change at this point, and it's certainly not going to change the in the ways that you and the OP want it to. If the option is to enjoy 14 for what it is or to go find a game you actually enjoy then I don't think it's really that much out of line for people to suggest you find a game you actually enjoy.

See, that's where I disagree. As much as I'd love another calamity for instance it's probably not happening. That doesn't mean i can't ask for... I don't know.. less boring quest and FATE design? Or more actual diversity between jobs other than different particles? Or another approach to dungeon/open world design? Eureka was a good start. I also quite like how PLD plays./shrug Doesn't mean tanks and healers aren't seriously boring since 5.0. You don't necessarily need a new engine for changes concerning that.

Also, I may have strong opinions on the game but I'm also willing to discuss issues. But that's not what fanboys do, to reiterate my point. They just reeeee, cover their ears and tell you to go play something else because criticising something they like somehow lessens their view of the game? Or maybe it's niggling doubt? Haha Who knows.

That's not to say I don't really like the game. Otherwise I would leave. But, I'm not gonna lie, I get bored by the same old, same old more and more. That's why I also appreciate that we get less dungeons for.. whatever. The gundam fight was great. More surprises, please.

Either way, I'm here to leave feedback.

[Payadopa]

If I go to a restaurant and I don't like what's on the menu, I don't issue a long list of "suggestions" they could make so the restaurant could fit my personal taste.
I go to another restaurant.

I know for a fact that people said the same when 1.0 was released. lol
Heaven forfend someone make suggestions. It's not like you need to take everything at face value.

So when am I allowed to suggest then? When the seasoning is bland? lol The forum was made for suggestions. Nevertheless, you dare criticise and you get a lot of people up in arms with pitchforks. But try see it from a different view. Maybe it's -because- people like the game a lot that they are making these suggestions. As much fun as XIV can be, it's seriously wasting its potential in places.

Ah, well. Here's hoping for 6.0.

[Iscah]

I know for a fact that people said the same when 1.0 was released. lol
Heaven forfend someone make suggestions. It's not like you need to take everything at face value.

So when am I allowed to suggest then? When the seasoning is bland? lol The forum was made for suggestions. Nevertheless, you dare criticise and you get a lot of people up in arms with pitchforks. But try see it from a different view. Maybe it's -because- people like the game a lot that they are making these suggestions. As much fun as XIV can be, it's seriously wasting its potential in places.

Ah, well. Here's hoping for 6.0.

To continue the restaurant analogy, the 1.0 restaurant was widely disliked. Not enough people thought the food was good enough and the whole venture was going to fail. They close down for a while, get a new chef and redesign the menu, and relaunch.

Now? There are a lot of people attending and they seem to be happy with what's on offer. One customer comes in talking about how the food is terrible and they should change XYZ to be more like the other restaurant down the street.

Why should that customer be listened to over the large number of people who seem to be enjoying themselves?

It's different if lots of people are making the same complaint. This particular OP is one person coming back every month or so and complaining about it every time.


Edit to add: It's not even about one game being objectively better than the other. They are two separate games doing things in different ways, and thus appealing to people who like different gameplay styles. If one should change to be the same as the other, all that means is that now there are two games catering to one group's taste, and the other group has lost the thing that they liked.

[Kiurai]

I'd say modern FFXI would be less time consuming than it's original incarnation. XI and XIV dont demand the same time from you, you can't really dispute that. My main gripe with OP's point is that he hits at fundamental game design that isn't so easily changed without effecting almost every system. If he was just asking for more engaging FATE content or more interesting quests alright you got a point some may disagree but atleast it's a more solid argument than some of his other points. The travel section for example needs to go. It's literally asking to hide loading screens not much magic in that.

[Connor]

Or why not both? Why focus purely on the negatives of either game when you could work to incorporate the positives of both?

They’ve made some attempts to do this kind of thing before. In FFXI, everything now is pretty quick, even relics take like 2-3 months at the most (and many are still considered the best equipment in the game for the job). They added daily levequest style objectives, they rotate monthly boss fights that you can do at your own leisure, alone or with a party. All content in FFXI, or at least the majority of it, can be done solo now (because of Trusts).

FFXIV took elements from FFXI and incorporated them into Eureka content. Joining groups to do overworld content with others, penalties for deaths (exp loss), some slight options on how to play your character with the Logos Actions (similar to FFXI’s subclass system), and long-term gear progression with the way relics work.

Neither of these attempts were perfect of course, but I’m just saying that maybe instead of trying to pick the ‘better of the two’, we should look at positives and negatives of both. Why settle for one when you can have the best of both worlds? SE is in a fairly unique position with two concurrent MMOs that are both have strong fanbases but entirely different game play styles. Surely it makes sense that if they took what was good from one and incorporated it into the other, it would create two well-rounded and balanced MMOs? Not that they should just copy-paste systems, I just mean conceptually. FFXI could benefit from the ‘simplicity’ of FFXIV; FFXIV could benefit from the ‘complexity’ of FFXI.

I think that looking at FFXI and FFXIV as equals rather than competitors would benefit both games. They’re both good in their own way. If you ask me, the real question is: how could those ways fit into the other game to improve it long-term?

[Payadopa]

Or why not both? Why focus purely on the negatives of either game when you could work to incorporate the positives of both?

Couldn't agree more. ^^b