SCH QOL changes for 5.35/5.4

[bundythenoob]

I'm not a fan of getting Bane back personnaly. Not that I wouldn't want to, but that's not on top of my priorities. Plus, if it's back, I'd prefer it to work differently than the old one. I don't think I'd like the AF cost on it.

As for status, I'm all for it. Shadowflare had Slow, Ruin II had blind. It was small little addition that just felt nice to have.
And of course, i'd be glad if WHM got Aero 3 back.

I'm interested to hear why you wouldn't want Bane back (or its current version anyway). do you think that buffing embrace would be a better option?

Also for 6.0, if Square is gonna return SCHs attacks and give AST some utility back (slow/stun) then WHM BETTER get Aero 3 back, as well as a much needed Fluid Aura buff. I'll never 4get my absolutely fav thing to do on WHM, using Fluid as a killmove to knock dead enemy corpses 15 yalms away ;-;7

[KDSilver]

I'm interested to hear why you wouldn't want Bane back (or its current version anyway). do you think that buffing embrace would be a better option?

Also for 6.0, if Square is gonna return SCHs attacks and give AST some utility back (slow/stun) then WHM BETTER get Aero 3 back, as well as a much needed Fluid Aura buff. I'll never 4get my absolutely fav thing to do on WHM, using Fluid as a killmove to knock dead enemy corpses 15 yalms away ;-;7

It's not that I'm firmly against. Considering the current toolkit SCH has compare to its older form, I would be glad to get anything back.
However, I think that it used to be more "engaging" to spread 3 dots than just one. As for why I think I wouldn't want the AF cost on it, it's because how you can heal with SCH in dungeon for wall to wall pull. You can properly rotate each of your oGCD in between each Art of War, and keep the AF stack for some soil or lustrate. Yes, there are several times that you'll end up with still 1 or 2 stacks remaining that could totally go into Bane (you use it into Energy drain so). But I think it's comfier this way. Plus, I think the SMN version of Bane right looks good to play, with its 100% of refreshing DoTs.
Now that Excog and Soil (with regen) exist, there are more room for AF healing usage, and what's remaining can safely go to energy drain for mana.

That's only for dungeons however.
But that's just a personnal preference. If Bane would be back as it was, I'd definitely use it.
What I'm trying to say is, it's not THE skill I miss the most on SCH.I would vastly prefer to get something like Miasma because only one DoT is really meh or even Shadwoflare first.

For Embrace, I don't really know. Currently, it's really weak and you can't micromanage it anymore.
I understand why the fairy took another hit in the teeth. We all know about who used to be SCH and its glorified position in the meta. It was not just about the fairy of course, it was definitly part of it.
150 pot today isn't justified however I think. Because healing calculation have been revised in lvl80. So I don't think it makes embrace as powerful as it used too.
Also, what used to make the fairy a strong asset was its comparison with Noct AST who couldn't compete and had that lack of regen. Now, it has Celestial Intersection which kinda closed the gap and if really needeed, Neutral Sect.

I don't think what bothers me the most is its potency right now. But the fact that Embrace is out of control. Some people might argue that they never tried to micromanage Embrace anyway so it doesn't change anything. But for people who used to work with it, I think I'd like something like DNC closed position where you can select the target you'd want your fairy to cast her embrace on. Cause most of the time, you want it on your tank for auto.
But that wouldn't work well if it has an animation, cause you'd have to weave it.
I want the old micromanagment of the fairy anyway...

I remember a raid though (A7S) where sending your fairy to the DPS jail allowed you to keep him alive with Embrace. But there aren't as many existing scenario where you'd another target than your tank (except extra damage on someone that Embrace can cover instead of casting some physick or wasting some lustrate on him.)

I don't have a correct answer for that. (and I don't want another healer war where "blabla, sch buff, sch meta, sch fairy", I'm tired of this).

[bundythenoob]

snip

You do bring up some interesting points about AF spending, but atm I think that one of SCHs weaknesses comes from its lack of AOE AF spending. I know that dumping excess into ED for more mana can be nice, but there have been plenty of times during my dungeon runs where i thought to myself "it would be nice to spend the AF on Bane and spread dots like in STB". I don't think Bane should return by itself though, but in tandem with Miasma at least to give us 2 dots to spread. ideally, we could get our 2 dots back and give the virus debuff to AoW for added flavour, but that's a big if that hinges on WHM getting aero 3/fluid aura back, and on AST getting a slow for gravity + CO stun for 6.0.

As for Embrace and the fairies, you're totally right in that I'd much rather have 4.0 fairy back with targetable embrace. its lower potency is hurting lower level players, and without the ability to control it to target heal with physick, it makes healing during ARR/some HW content a lot harder than it used to be. I've also heard that it shows almost no impact in lv 80 content, but that may be due to them buffing soil + recitation + seraph for lv 80 content to "make up for embrace". it still doesnt make sense though that they went and broke the fairies. that's definitely something that must be remedied by 6.0 above else.

Tbh it feels like the battle systems devs went and """balanced""" all of the jobs around lv 80 content, but totally forgot about the balance at lv 50, 60, 70, and all of the other levels in between. just another problem that would be solved if they hired a dedicated healer dev (and a tank one too, for obvious reasons)

[KDSilver]

You do bring up some interesting points about AF spending, but atm I think that one of SCHs weaknesses comes from its lack of AOE AF spending. I know that dumping excess into ED for more mana can be nice, but there have been plenty of times during my dungeon runs where i thought to myself "it would be nice to spend the AF on Bane and spread dots like in STB".

Which is something I totally understand and realized too indeed. As I said, you spend the extra on Energy drain anyway.
I wonder if getting Energy Siphon from smn wouldn't be an answer to that. Sharing the same 3s recast time, also restoring 500 mp, but being a 50 potency aoe damage. But people might be upset of it I guess ? Because it would make SCH and SMN alike once more and I think people want them to be seperated even if they share Arcanist as their primary class.

I don't think Bane should return by itself though, but in tandem with Miasma at least to give us 2 dots to spread. ideally, we could get our 2 dots back and give the virus debuff to AoW for added flavour, but that's a big if that hinges on WHM getting aero 3/fluid aura back, and on AST getting a slow for gravity + CO stun for 6.0.

Yeah, if Miasma comes back, why not. I'd love to.
I'm not for getting a Virus debuff on Art of War though. For balance purpose. You can (rarely though) see some use of Art of War in raid situation. Virus was 15% if I remember correctly, which is really strong.
I'd prefer a debuff that only work on trash mob such as slow/blind/stun so that it doesn't disrupt other content balance as well. Of course, if SCH gets that, i'd want the other to get something back as well. I miss Aero 3 and the damage on fluid aura.
(I really liked Virus though)

As for Embrace and the fairies, you're totally right in that I'd much rather have 4.0 fairy back with targetable embrace. its lower potency is hurting lower level players

I don't know if it does. Critlo on lower level just double your HP bar and succor heal+shield has been buffed.
I think it's more a panic feeling. I remember my leveling when I started the game. I didn't understand what oGCD was, was not using my fairy at all and any missing HP made me fear for their lives. So when you see that succor doesn't restore as much HP than medica, and you don't understand that the yellow bar is a shield and make your party safe, don't have confidence it regen... it "looks" like SCH is weak. But it's not. Whispering Dawn alone already covers mostly everything. But you have to think to use it in both single target and aoe situation (single for trash pull and aoe for bosses in dungeon).
SCH is actually certainly more safe for a newcommer than WHM. What they need is actually understand what their tool does.
Despite being nerfed, Embrace still restore a good amount of HP in lower level. I know I raised this fact in another topic, but I don't believe this nerf impact SCH at all. Especially with Adlo being at its best iteration today.

Tbh it feels like the battle systems devs went and """balanced""" all of the jobs around lv 80 content, but totally forgot about the balance at lv 50, 60, 70, and all of the other levels in between. just another problem that would be solved if they hired a dedicated healer dev (and a tank one too, for obvious reasons)

Yes, that's the case for a lot of classes. They looks broken.
See Divination on AST for example. You can't align it with every other buff until lvl70 when you learn sleeve draw. Drk looks weak because TBN is also being the lvl70 wall. Their 2nd aoe combo is learnt at lvl72. War doesn't build its gauge on aoe until lvl74-78 ? Don't remember.
There are so many example of that.