Thread: SCH QOL changes for 5.35/5.4

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Adloquium doesn't have a seven minute cooldown.

Nor is she necessarily requesting the ability to cheese a mechanic to the degree that Hallowed does.

I think one can reasonably assume she means that if, say, the fact that invulns skill exist within a tank-pairs rotational schedule would make it viable to ignore a tank-swap mechanic (for some advantage in ease of play, positioning, uptime, etc.), CD-buffed shields and surrounding effects across a heal-pair ought to be potentially capable of that same tactical power, even if in a less convenient fashion.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Nor is she necessarily requesting the ability to cheese a mechanic to the degree that Hallowed does.

I think one can reasonably assume she means that if, say, the fact that invulns skill exist within a tank-pairs rotational schedule would make it viable to ignore a tank-swap mechanic (for some advantage in ease of play, positioning, uptime, etc.), CD-buffed shields and surrounding effects across a heal-pair ought to be potentially capable of that same tactical power, even if in a less convenient fashion.

Correct. Like, for example... When bosses have tank busters that also inflict (phys/magic) vuln down, tank invuln cooldowns let you ignore the penalty for a botched swap completely. You can eat one or more autos with your forced-swap-debuff, even if each one would normally one-shot you. Deployment was never that strong.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Nor is she necessarily requesting the ability to cheese a mechanic to the degree that Hallowed does.

I think one can reasonably assume she means that if, say, the fact that invulns skill exist within a tank-pairs rotational schedule would make it viable to ignore a tank-swap mechanic (for some advantage in ease of play, positioning, uptime, etc.), CD-buffed shields and surrounding effects across a heal-pair ought to be potentially capable of that same tactical power, even if in a less convenient fashion.

Has some possibility, not going to lie. Where my concern lies here is with how it plays out in the way healers work together. Forgive the disgruntled former WHM main casting a side-eye at Scholars asking for unique job capabilities that smell like "Make AST and SCH Mandatory And Overpowered Again". I'm aware that mega-shields and the cheese they could enable don't preclude anything interesting or unique being given to the healer that has zero GCD or AOE shields, but let's just say I'm also accustomed to the other two healers getting stuffed with utility like Thanksgiving turkeys while whatsherface that third healer over there gets more timeout in the No Utility closet.

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Has some possibility, not going to lie. Where my concern lies here is with how it plays out in the way healers work together. Forgive the disgruntled former WHM main casting a side-eye at Scholars asking for unique job capabilities that smell like "Make AST and SCH Mandatory And Overpowered Again". I'm aware that mega-shields and the cheese they could enable don't preclude anything interesting or unique being given to the healer that has zero GCD or AOE shields, but let's just say I'm also accustomed to the other two healers getting stuffed with utility like Thanksgiving turkeys while whatsherface that third healer over there gets more timeout in the No Utility closet.

Oh, I get that. But consider -- this shouldn't be anything that a single job on its own is necessarily capable of. Every "Regen" healer has shields. Every "Shield" healer has at least as many regens. There's no reason for these capacities to be looked at strictly as a job's toolkit rather than what is possible for a healer pair as a unit.

If anything, WHM is the more keystone job in any such equation. Unlike Nocturnal Field and Galvanized, Divine Benedict can stack with all other sources of shielding, just as Stoneskin could before it.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Oh, I get that. But consider -- this shouldn't be anything that a single job on its own is necessarily capable of.

I'd be perfectly happy to do away with tank invulns. They've been used to cheese and trivialize countless mechanics.

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Has some possibility, not going to lie. Where my concern lies here is with how it plays out in the way healers work together. Forgive the disgruntled former WHM main casting a side-eye at Scholars asking for unique job capabilities...

Please read what I actually said-

Originally Posted by Gravagar

Every tank and healer should have defensive tools that make everyone go "woah, that was awesome!," like how old Deployment was. That's good job design, it's a good time for players, and adds more depth to a role that has been suffering from shallowness problems.

I also elaborated some vague ideas for the sake of argument. I'd like to hear your thoughts about that instead of whatever it is you're talking about, because I have no interest in defending a strawman. Nobody here wants any of the healers to suffer. This thread is about SCH in particular, though, so... that's why I'm talking about SCH in particular...

this whole critlo debate is the reason why I believe that Deployment Tactics should be reworked to spread stratagems. this way you can balance future stratagems to be either single target debuffs or single target party memeber buffs, and give us the option to spread them to other allies or enemies to bring that tactician decision making aspect of SCH to the forefront. of course this means that Deployment would have to be learned after chain stratagem, but then we could simply learn a new stratagem at lv 58 and then move deployment to lv 68, since there is a hole in our kit where quickened aetherflow used to be (RIP)