Thread: SCH QOL changes for 5.35/5.4

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Nor is she necessarily requesting the ability to cheese a mechanic to the degree that Hallowed does.

I think one can reasonably assume she means that if, say, the fact that invulns skill exist within a tank-pairs rotational schedule would make it viable to ignore a tank-swap mechanic (for some advantage in ease of play, positioning, uptime, etc.), CD-buffed shields and surrounding effects across a heal-pair ought to be potentially capable of that same tactical power, even if in a less convenient fashion.

Correct. Like, for example... When bosses have tank busters that also inflict (phys/magic) vuln down, tank invuln cooldowns let you ignore the penalty for a botched swap completely. You can eat one or more autos with your forced-swap-debuff, even if each one would normally one-shot you. Deployment was never that strong.

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Nor is she necessarily requesting the ability to cheese a mechanic to the degree that Hallowed does.

I think one can reasonably assume she means that if, say, the fact that invulns skill exist within a tank-pairs rotational schedule would make it viable to ignore a tank-swap mechanic (for some advantage in ease of play, positioning, uptime, etc.), CD-buffed shields and surrounding effects across a heal-pair ought to be potentially capable of that same tactical power, even if in a less convenient fashion.

Has some possibility, not going to lie. Where my concern lies here is with how it plays out in the way healers work together. Forgive the disgruntled former WHM main casting a side-eye at Scholars asking for unique job capabilities that smell like "Make AST and SCH Mandatory And Overpowered Again". I'm aware that mega-shields and the cheese they could enable don't preclude anything interesting or unique being given to the healer that has zero GCD or AOE shields, but let's just say I'm also accustomed to the other two healers getting stuffed with utility like Thanksgiving turkeys while whatsherface that third healer over there gets more timeout in the No Utility closet.

It was that just mechanics that deployed critlo allowed you to skip but basically an entire phase if possible. The three instances that are oft mentioned are O8s, O9s, O11s and O12s. With O8s, you negated basically all the damage that 2nd forsaken did up to the light of judgement. For O9s, it was the earth phase of the fight that critlo allowed you to cheese cause if you took no damage, the healers and tanks only would need to worry about the conal aoes. In O11s, there were instances of it where you didn't need to tank lb3 for the wave cannon damage after the checker and no need to tank lb cheese the red fists before second pantokrator. In O12s, it was the fact if you deployed at the right time, the only damage you needed to healer were the last 3 defamations before the ion efflux which ended the hello world phases.

It was the fact you could basically bypass whole phases with a critlo (aided by largasse, nature's minne and convalescence) and lb cheesing is why you see what they did to sch shielding and I don't see what they could of done with Whm or Noct astro that could ever get them on that level.

Originally Posted by Maltothoris

It was that just mechanics that deployed critlo allowed you to skip but basically an entire phase if possible....

It was the fact you could basically bypass whole phases with a critlo (aided by largasse, nature's minne and convalescence) and lb cheesing is why you see what they did to sch shielding and I don't see what they could of done with Whm or Noct astro that could ever get them on that level.

To the first points: "Skip" implies that victory at that phase becomes a foregone conclusion regardless of what you do, like skipping Soar. That's not true. You don't get to skip all of Hello World no matter how much shielding you have. If passing rot goes poorly, then you're dead anyway. If I inaccurately aim my conal aoe in Forsaken and cleave the party, a deployed adlo will not save them. You still have to do the phase. Effectively using your tools as a healer leads to you having an easier time doing the healing part of those mechanics. There are more fallible ways to do those mechanics than a beefy deployed adlo, or more costly ways, yes. But calling a situation in which I use a healy button now so that I don't have to use a different healy button later a "skip" is something I cannot agree to, unless you consider healing everyone up after / during a mechanic to also be "skipping" it.

To the second point: Understandable, I don't hold most people accountable for coming up with good designs. I DO hold the dev team accountable for that, however, and I expect a certain level of quality for what I pay for. They're professionals, and shouldn't come up on mental blocks as easy as us players. Shadowbringers did not deliver the expected quality level on the job design front at all, for my salty healer self anyway. As for WHM, they have DR from their wings, maybe that but bigger and better. AST could cast Undo and fix a big oopsie, if they kept their time mageyness. Add some clause about how these three big cooldowns don't interact together / can't be stacked... These ideas are probably terrible, but I'm saying them anyway, because it's not an impossible request, I believe.

Originally Posted by Semirhage

Adloquium doesn't have a seven minute cooldown.

Did you mean Deployment? I'll assume you did, since we're talking about it, but please do correct me if I'm wrong.
I'd rather take Deployment's cooldown doubling or tripling over it being completely neutered. Yes, even if its cooldown is significantly longer than any tank invuln cooldown, I would still gladly take that kind of nerf over the mistreatment it got.

this whole critlo debate is the reason why I believe that Deployment Tactics should be reworked to spread stratagems. this way you can balance future stratagems to be either single target debuffs or single target party memeber buffs, and give us the option to spread them to other allies or enemies to bring that tactician decision making aspect of SCH to the forefront. of course this means that Deployment would have to be learned after chain stratagem, but then we could simply learn a new stratagem at lv 58 and then move deployment to lv 68, since there is a hole in our kit where quickened aetherflow used to be (RIP)