Buffs to dragoon

[Mikey_R]

and the same attention as the other melee jobs as they tend to be adjusted always before dragoon does unfortunately.

Monk says Hi.

[Renkei]

Monk says Hi.

DRG 2.0 says hi, Not relevant until final coil. Can i please get 15 seconds instead of 10 WS holding like monk did? DRG has never been fixed before Monk this is the first cycle they bull-crapped monk but at least they buffed Riddle of Fire by removing its slow down, honestly they seem to enjoy neglecting classes in this game. Popular opinion on the English forums is no to dragoon changes, when on the jp forums is a totally different beast. At least the guys there conduct themselves by spitballing ideas inside of a single job improvement thread so the devs can look at it and consider it, here everyone shoots down each-other with one liners because nobody wants to waste their brain power even considering for 5 seconds if it would even be game breaking or not.

[Ramura_Sono]

DRG 2.0 says hi, Not relevant until final coil.

And after it's Magic Defense Buff, it's been relevant ever since.

Can i please get 15 seconds instead of 10 WS holding like monk did? DRG has never been fixed before Monk..

Dragoon has pretty consistently been fixed before Monk, when it's actually needed fixing.

this is the first cycle they bull-crapped monk...

EL. OH. EL. Yes, Heavensward and it's "DELETE MNK" mantra didn't exist, Stormblood, where it started with every gcd being nerfed, where it was the worst of the melee until 4.4's TK rotation put it on par with NIN in very specific comps didn't exist, sure. If we ignore all the other times they bull-crapped monk, this is totally the first time.

honestly they seem to enjoy neglecting classes in this game

And none more than Monk.

here everyone shoots down each-other with one liners because nobody wants to waste their brain power even considering for 5 seconds if it would even be game breaking or not.

It doesn't matter if it would be game breaking or not. Your asking for a job that has been consistently good, to receive buffs it absolutely doesn't need. QoL in the form of Wheeling/Fang combo timer extensions, AOE Disembowel refresh, heck even potentially keeping eyes when BotD is dropped, sure. But asking for anything beyond that is too much when the job has consistently performed well, and there are other jobs, with longer standing issues (SMN's, MNK's, BRD's, etc), that should take priority.

[ForteNightshade]

DRG 2.0 says hi, Not relevant until final coil. Can i please get 15 seconds instead of 10 WS holding like monk did? DRG has never been fixed before Monk this is the first cycle they bull-crapped monk but at least they buffed Riddle of Fire by removing its slow down, honestly they seem to enjoy neglecting classes in this game. Popular opinion on the English forums is no to dragoon changes, when on the jp forums is a totally different beast. At least the guys there conduct themselves by spitballing ideas inside of a single job improvement thread so the devs can look at it and consider it, here everyone shoots down each-other with one liners because nobody wants to waste their brain power even considering for 5 seconds if it would even be game breaking or not.

I have mained Dragoon since Heavensward and are you kidding me? There has not been a single time since 3.0 where Dragoon wasn't superior. It either outright did more damage or brought enough support to compensate. I mean, piercing alone kept Dragoon in the meta slot throughout two expansions whereas Monk loitered in mediocrity. The only time Monk even entered the conversation is Eden's Gate when they panicked buffed it after the community straight up refused to play it. This coming off the heels of the media tour where the dev team cited Monk as their most proud change. By 5.1, Ninja reclaimed its status and now even with Dragoon finally slipping from the top dog spot, it's still third place—beating out, wait for it, Monk! Which remains the worst Melee in the game. Again.

To say Monk isn't among the most shafted jobs in the game at this point is just wrong.

[Renkei]

I have mained Dragoon since Heavensward and are you kidding me? There has not been a single time since 3.0 where Dragoon wasn't superior.

To say Monk isn't among the most shafted jobs in the game at this point is just wrong.

I Mained Dragoon since 2.0. You obviously must of not seen when they buffed monk in the early 2.0 cycle and didn't touch DRG until final coil.
That's not true at all, Check Log data on your claims and Monk has had top fights in previous expansions Lots of different fights, I know because IVE Personally Cleared those many fights with a MONK!

Monk was superior in the Manipulator Fight in Gordias, I played with a Monk Through out my entire end game raiding cycle with the same exact Monk Since Second coil.

Manipulator, Brute Justice, Refurbisher 0, Were all great fights for monk as well.

The Closest fight in those cycles was cruise chaser.

I have personal Experience playing with a Monk for From Second Coil, All the way until Eden gate. We've toughly looked at issues in the design and it's plain and obvious that Monk has some serious clunky issues in the recent expansion, But your statements doesn't even disprove the fact.

Clearly your comment is just an attempt to Gas-light me I am fully aware that you and your close community has something out for me.

Dragoon was NEVER the top spot in this expansion. Its ALWAYS been dominated by BLM,SMN, and SAM.

This is something that has carried through in previous expansions too, and prior to Sam even existing it's always been BLM or SMN with some exceptions here and there.

You claiming that "Dragoon Finally slipping from the tog dog spot" IS out of touch, MNK was only inferior to DRG When Fist of Fire HAD the speed reduction, As soon as they fixed it They shot up to top melee, and then NIN got Buffed following it taking the crown, This shifted DRG into Third. At NO TIME IN THIS EXPANSION HAS DRG BEEN TOP DPS.

Matter of fact the only time DRG was DEFACTO best DPS was FINAL COIL, but the damage margin was so incredibly small it absolutely didn't even matter! (it beat MNK by 15 dps out of 718 i believe. whopping 733.)

All you did was attempt to make me question my View point without attempting to view actual Data, META doesn't always imply BEST, I'm waiting for you guys to understand that by opening a dictionary. Maybe when you learn how to META VIEW this discussion you'll start to understand that.

Popular choices doesn't mean the job is the best.
Dragoon is a Popular job that is being spun as broken because you are twice as likely to run into one outputting good damage regardless if they are IN or OUT of Standardized Misnomer "Meta".

I think its important to look at ALL balance with an systematic review.

Meta-analysis can be tainted because half of your information is from your community or your peers, How can you conduct Meta-analysis's without a systematic review is beyond me.

The only True statement that occurs for you is that they should change monk, But i also think they should change DRG, but first they need to change BRD, and MCH , And Honestly they have VERY limited solutions but to offload all Support RDPS abilities on to ranged classes because of the HUGE Front-loading of DNC.

Look I'm not implying DRG Isn't unplayable, but Neither was monk before they changed it, and after they changed it, and now its still out performing DRG and they plan on changing it again? To what? Top DPS? By the time they come around to DRG At least we will be doing more damage then BRD.

The only Changes are Proposed, 15 Second Fang/Wheeling, Renovation of Eyes, Removal of Dragon-Sight and shifting damage over to other abilities, these are all ideas for future improvement.

Lets Try having some Discourse about FFXIV-Balance here by Offering Solutions without shooting other people down, It does NOTHING for the community to behave in that fashion.
Lets not try having a monopoly on this discourse by carrying views of an outside community into the forums to control balance decisions.

[SpeckledBurd]

I Mained Dragoon since 2.0. You obviously must of not seen when they buffed monk in the early 2.0 cycle and didn't touch DRG until final coil.
That's not true at all, Check Log data on your claims and Monk has had top fights in previous expansions Lots of different fights, I know because IVE Personally Cleared those many fights with a MONK!

Monk was superior in the Manipulator Fight in Gordias, I played with a Monk Through out my entire end game raiding cycle with the same exact Monk Since Second coil.

Manipulator, Brute Justice, Refurbisher 0, Were all great fights for monk as well.

The Closest fight in those cycles was cruise chaser.

I have personal Experience playing with a Monk for From Second Coil, All the way until Eden gate. We've toughly looked at issues in the design and it's plain and obvious that Monk has some serious clunky issues in the recent expansion, But your statements doesn't even disprove the fact.

Clearly your comment is just an attempt to Gas-light me I am fully aware that you and your close community has something out for me.

You're forgetting that the DPS reports of Heavensward and Stormblood aren't at all comparable to the rDPS report metrics that are reported now.

In those expansions fflogs didn't report raid DPS, they only reported personal damage. In those days Monk had a negative raid contribution due to forcing tanks into Tank Stance courtesy of it's lack of aggro control and forcing ranged to play TP song due to it's TP burn, while Heavensward was when Dragoon's raid contribution was at it's most powerful.

In all of the fights you say Monk was "leading" in Heavensward, it was only by an incredibly slim margin of about 50-80~ personal DPS without considering what a Monk would do to the Tanks/Ranged party members by existing. This was when Dragoon was adding 200 DPS to any ranged you had in your party courtesy of the piercing debuff. That's more than enough to beat Monk's personal DPS alone by a huge margin for those days and it had an addition 150-200 DPS from Battle Litany on top of that. If the rDPS metric as it exists today were available for older fights, Monk in Heavensward would be as behind in rDPS as the ranged jobs are now, possibly more. The same is true for Stormblood, where even on fights like Demon Chadarnook when Monk was at its best and was able to do completely uninterrupted Tornado Kick rotation, the edge it had over Dragoon was only about 200 DPS which was eclipsed immediately by the piercing debuff and that gap was made even wider by both Dragon Sight and Battle Litany.

Dragoon has been unequivocally better than Monk for every fight from 3.0 until 5.0 in a normal comp.

[Renkei]

You're forgetting that the DPS reports of Heavensward and Stormblood aren't at all comparable to the rDPS report metrics that are reported now.

In those expansions fflogs didn't report raid DPS, they only reported personal damage. In those days Monk had a negative raid contribution due to forcing tanks into Tank Stance courtesy of it's lack of aggro control and forcing ranged to play TP song due to it's TP burn, while Heavensward was when Dragoon's raid contribution was at it's most powerful.

In all of the fights you say Monk was "leading" in Heavensward, it was only by an incredibly slim margin of about 50-80~ personal DPS without considering what a Monk would do to the Tanks/Ranged party members by existing. This was when Dragoon was adding 200 DPS to any ranged you had in your party courtesy of the piercing debuff. That's more than enough to beat Monk's personal DPS alone by a huge margin for those days and it had an addition 150-200 DPS from Battle Litany on top of that. If the rDPS metric as it exists today were available for older fights, Monk in Heavensward would be as behind in rDPS as the ranged jobs are now, possibly more. The same is true for Stormblood, where even on fights like Demon Chadarnook when Monk was at its best and was able to do completely uninterrupted Tornado Kick rotation, the edge it had over Dragoon was only about 200 DPS which was eclipsed immediately by the piercing debuff and that gap was made even wider by both Dragon Sight and Battle Litany.

Dragoon has been unequivocally better than Monk for every fight from 3.0 until 5.0 in a normal comp.

You say that then continue to try comparing the two metrics to each-other. So it's okay for you to compare but not me?

Bard Using Army's Paeon was absolutely normal in play during that time period, it was always NORMAL even through out ARR. It was important to Invigorate as Early as you can without clipping its potency.

Ripping Hate off Tanks? That is Not normal what so ever, Through out all of heavenwards that was never an issue for our tanks, Maybe at your level of play it was but not my groups.

I want them to Change MNK because its Clunky.

Thanks. We all needed a laugh.

Okay? How is this even constructive? Maybe because it's not? I expect no less from two representatives of "The Balance".

The Truth is pretty funny isn't it. I mean you wouldn't know because your told what to think.

[SpeckledBurd]

You say that then continue to try comparing the two metrics to each-other. So it's okay for you to compare but not me?

Bard Using Army's Paeon was absolutely normal in play during that time period, it was always NORMAL even through out ARR. It was important to Invigorate as Early as you can without clipping its potency.

Ripping Hate off Tanks? That is Not normal what so ever, Through out all of heavenwards that was never an issue for our tanks, Maybe at your level of play it was but not my groups.

I'm not comparing personal DPS to rDPS, I'm comparing Dragoon's rDPS to Monk's rDPS in Heavensward, where Dragoon's was massively higher the entire expansion, and Dragoon's rDPS in Stormblood to Monk's rDPS in Stormblood, where again, Dragoon's was massively stronger because Piercing, Battle Litany, and Dragon Sight was all collectively better than Monk's Personal damage and Brotherhood.

Even if using Army's Paeon/Rook Promotion was normal, it was still required earlier and more often when you had a Monk in the party because of it's TP issues. Yes you hit Invigorate at 600 TP every time, but guess what, Monk used more TP than other jobs so even doing that Monk's TP burn went faster.

Ripping hate off tanks isn't something I mentioned so nice job trying to put words in my mouth. Also nice job trying to imply that I didn't raid in Heavensward and that I didn't know what I was doing, but I did and cleared all of Creator Savage well before Heavensward ended, and that was when the disparity between Monk and Dragoon was at it's greatest.

[Ramura_Sono]

Okay? How is this even constructive? Maybe because it's not? I expect no less from two representatives of "The Balance".

The Truth is pretty funny isn't it. I mean you wouldn't know because your told what to think.

OPEN YOUR EYES SHEEPLE! THE MOON IS A LIE! FOR IT HAS TOLD ME SO!

I couldn't care less what the balance says about anything. Nice try buttercup.

Trying to deny Dragoon has been anything other than strictly better than monk at any point after ARR is laughably ignorant.

[Ramura_Sono]

A bunch of poppycock.

Thanks. We all needed a laugh.