Remove Gender-Locked Class/Weapon Poses

[Iscah]

This even makes a difference in mundane things like sitting in a chair. Ask most women and they will tell you that they always either spot the exact position of the seat of the chair visually or with a touch before sitting down in it because if they miss the seat their centre of mass is already below the seat and they have almost no chance to catch themselves and will end up on the floor. Ask a man and they probably don't even think about anything like that and don't think twice about just sitting down in a chair without knowing exactly where the seat of it is because if they miss that have the entire length of their torso before their centre of mass moves below the seat and it's an easy reflex to just catch themselves by adjusting their centre of mass to be over the seat.

Where are you getting this "ask most women and they'll tell you..." thing from? Was there some kind of study on this? It sounds improbable.

Walk in front of chair; sit; adjust if necessary. What kind of tiny chair are they aiming for that they could miss it entirely if they don't mindfully confirm the position of it first?

If anything it might be something people do subconsciously. But it still seems implausible along gendered lines.

[Absurdity]

medival greatsword weigh 40 lbs picture swing a 40 lbs on battle feild be a female

This was bothering me to no end. I have no idea where you pulled that number from but neither men nor women could be in any way effective with a sword that ridiculously heavy. Two-handed or Greatswords were typically between 4.4-7.1 lbs (2-3.2 kg) with some being as light as 3.3lbs (1.5kg) and anything above 8.8lbs (4kg) was considered a ceremonial or parade greatsword and not used in actual combat.

[Kolsykol]

This was bothering me to no end. I have no idea where you pulled that number from but neither men nor women could be in any way effective with a sword that ridiculously heavy. Two-handed or Greatswords were typically between 4.4-7.1 lbs (2-3.2 kg) with some being as light as 3.3lbs (1.5kg) and anything above 8.8lbs (4kg) was considered a ceremonial or parade greatsword and not used in actual combat.

In fairness, have you seen the swords in this game xD.
What Savagelf is saying is funnily enough untrue if we are to go by irl standards which he or she wants to argue from, but it's probably true in the fantasy world of the game lol.
Our characters are basically Guts from Berserk.

Edit: For reference, here is from Scholargladiatoria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbNL_At0IVw .
Greatswords aren't even being used like they were irl in this game either, as far as I know they were almost wielded like spears or served more to cut down spears and cavalry.
The whole fantasy behind Greatswords in fiction is very much a fantasy.

[Absurdity]

What Savagelf is saying is funnily enough untrue if we are to go by irl standards which he or she wants to argue from, but it's probably true in the fantasy world of the game lol.

That's why it was bothering me, if you try to argue realism you really shouldn't work with numbers that are so incredibly wrong that it becomes comical.

Our characters are basically Guts from Berserk.

Oh I have seen the DRK swords, they're ridiculous hunks of steel and I love them for it but I would never argue that they are in any way realistic or that it would be even feasible to swing such a monster irl.

Greatswords aren't even being used like they were irl in this game either, as far as I know they were almost wielded like spears or served more to cut down spears and cavalry.
The whole fantasy behind Greatswords in fiction is very much a fantasy.

They were supposedly also used to break up pike formations or by bodyguard mercenaries to engage multiple opponents at once and keep them occupied and they required a completely different fighting style than normal arming or longswords, because their sheer length made it impossible to use normal sword techniques.


Funnily enough the male DRK weapon pose is actually somewhat accurate. Since greatswords were too long for a hip scabbard they were carried over the wielder's shoulder.

[Savagelf]

do simple google search on medival armor and greatsword i not use for realism more as guide post of what weapons would weigh in really life we look great sword use movies like lotr are those be use like spear not they not. through one argue the metal use for weapon are made to make weapon as light as feather, if we take JR tolkien ideal of mirthal and apply to weapon weight the weigh less. second people coming to play ffxiv to escape political correctness not have people tried drag into the games. the demand for remove gender action will be seen as political correctness. PC doesn't have help game or game rating. players don't want think take for them that often has bad reaction as my point your in minority basic fact i see no else support what you want. look yoshi p hesitate to jump in pc because he understand players don't want and that gamers aren't fond of pc and that has hurt game more them it has help them. the last of us 2 was great example as was star wars as was many other thing that tried drink the pc coldaid of this wow will be another example the more people go down that path the less profit game company make give you guys this small thing will mean someone else we demand something large later. this is were slippy slope begins and i think better not give into to it.

[Kolsykol]

do simple google search on medival armor and greatsword i not use for realism more as guide post of what weapons would weigh in really life we look great sword use movies like lotr are those be use like spear not they not. through one argue the metal use for weapon are made to make weapon as light as feather, if we take JR tolkien ideal of mirthal and apply to weapon weight the weigh less. second people coming to play ffxiv to escape political correctness not have people tried drag into the games. the demand for remove gender action will be seen as political correctness. PC doesn't have help game or game rating. players don't want think take for them that often has bad reaction as my point your in minority basic fact i see no else support what you want. look yoshi p hesitate to jump in pc because he understand players don't want and that gamers aren't fond of pc and that has hurt game more them it has help them. the last of us 2 was great example as was star wars as was many other thing that tried drink the pc coldaid of this wow will be another example the more people go down that path the less profit game company make give you guys this small thing will mean someone else we demand something large later. this is were slippy slope begins and i think better not give into to it.

No one is saying that they should be removed, people are saying that they'd like to be able to use all of them instead of half.
I don't see the problem with this, like I mentioned with the DRK for example the stances both communicate different personalities neither of which is gendered.
Greatswords used to be carried on the shoulder a lot of the time but the DRK male stance still looks edgier to me and like your character is brooding, while the female stance looks more knightly to me.
Both of which can work fine for either gender, it just depends on how you imagine your character.

Personally I don't imagine my DRK as being very knightly I imagine her as being edgier and with more of an emphasis on the '' dark '' in the '' dark knight ''.
So I would like to use the male one on my character, but someone else might want more of an emphasis on the '' knight '' part and they want the female stance.

Also, you were the one who brought up weight lol.

[Savagelf]

i brought up the weight argument because of out side knowledge i brought up actors because what may not feel comfort to female actress may feel comfortable to male. this work against have it be add i brought up the fact that it take great deal of money and time to add or remove which what some have argue find postion equal comfortable to female actress may be worth more. the dark knight more anti hero kind a hero that work for shadow use less honor mean to get want need done done. for example why not have female character put point on sword on ground rest on it or something i away open to new emotions i just not sure you really can apply the male to female without it look bad or have to called ifn actor to act those emotion out to make them look nature.

[WhiteArchmage]

Y'know, one of the easiest ways to discount the "but men are stronger" thing is to ACTUALLY look in the game. I went into Character Creation ready to write down the initial stats for Male and Female Characters and, you know what happened? They're the same.

A midlander Male has 22 STR, while a Midlander Female ALSO has 22 STR. A Highlander Male has 23, as well as a Highlander Female. I got as far as Duskwight before I got bored with going back and forth just for the same numbers.

The only thing in FFXIV that changes your character's starting attributes isn't Race+Gender. It's Race+Clan, but at least in XIV it means there's NO difference in Strenght between males and females (note: I went back to check, this applies even to AU'RA, which means the dainty little lizard girls can lift as much as their taller counterparts, Raen have an initial STR of 19, while Xaela 23). EVEN going by a "center of mass" argument, this is a FANTASY game, where no HUMAN should be able to do a FRIGGIN FRONTLFIP with a near 2 meter long hunk of metal in their arms and yet we do so easily.

And even then it's taking an extreme example for something that doesn't even need it: DRG's pose makes it so terribly diffficult to point your spear at the ground instead of leaning on it? Is a Y chromosome needed to hold chakrams differently? or knives? or a Celestial Globe that floats in mid-air anyway?

Just let us choose between the poses, or add more poses AND include the opposite sex's among them

[Edax]

medival greatsword weigh 40 lbs picture swing a 40 lbs on battle feild be a female

https://www.livescience.com/15128-ar...ht-energy.html

A 2 handed sword like a zweihander is only 8lbs and can be swung around quickly 1 handed:
https://youtu.be/DbNL_At0IVw?t=179

[Kolsykol]

Y'know, one of the easiest ways to discount the "but men are stronger" thing is to ACTUALLY look in the game. I went into Character Creation ready to write down the initial stats for Male and Female Characters and, you know what happened? They're the same.

A midlander Male has 22 STR, while a Midlander Female ALSO has 22 STR. A Highlander Male has 23, as well as a Highlander Female. I got as far as Duskwight before I got bored with going back and forth just for the same numbers.

The only thing in FFXIV that changes your character's starting attributes isn't Race+Gender. It's Race+Clan, but at least in XIV it means there's NO difference in Strenght between males and females (note: I went back to check, this applies even to AU'RA, which means the dainty little lizard girls can lift as much as their taller counterparts, Raen have an initial STR of 19, while Xaela 23). EVEN going by a "center of mass" argument, this is a FANTASY game, where no HUMAN should be able to do a FRIGGIN FRONTLFIP with a near 2 meter long hunk of metal in their arms and yet we do so easily.

And even then it's taking an extreme example for something that doesn't even need it: DRG's pose makes it so terribly diffficult to point your spear at the ground instead of leaning on it? Is a Y chromosome needed to hold chakrams differently? or knives? or a Celestial Globe that floats in mid-air anyway?

Just let us choose between the poses, or add more poses AND include the opposite sex's among them

I have a lot of experience with both bodybuilding and power lifting myself and have probably met more people involved in it than most people will ever even see in their entire lives.
And in my experience usually the people who really care about the biological differences are people on the outside who aren't even involved at all.

I mean there are people who are just in complete denial about it too, but for the most part people who actually do this stuff tend to compete more against themselves than other people and cheer each other on.
And men in these circles are very supportive of women and just happy to see them get involved.
But then you jump online and people are all being armchair experts about it.

If anyone should care about this it's me and people that I know, but for some reason we just don't.
But people online sure seem to obsess about it quite a bit.
Meanwhile I am just here playing my cute Viera swinging a massive sword and punching dragons so hard in the face that they explode lol.