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  1. #321
    Player
    Enkidoh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Ala Mhigo
    Posts
    8,282
    Character
    Enkidoh Roux
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    However, I'm not going to write off more world-hopping as a possibility later given the loose threads already in play related to at least one of them. As it stands we know more about the Void than any other remaining Reflections.
    Except we can't world-hop to other Shards even if we wanted to - the original means we entered the Void/Thirteenth was through a dimensional rift originally engineered by the Cloud of Darkness and her Covenant to Xande which Cid and the Ironworks used magitek technology to brute force open - destroying her and Xande cancelled the Covenant and caused that protal to the Void to completely collapse (yes minor rips allow Voidsent to enter the Source but they have to always possess a physical host in order to complete the 'jump' so to speak). And the way the Crystal Tower became the Crystal TARDIS and ended up in the First is also now unrepeatable, as we destroyed the mechanism that made that possible during the Twinning.

    So both means are now unrepeatable - the Crystal Tower just will be going nowhere fast from now on and simply never will be dimensionally travelling again. We can still travel to and from the Source to the First though due to our aetheric trails between aetherytes, but the Tower simply will not be doing the same.

    No, I think it's pretty clear we won't be doing any more dimension hopping I'm sorry to say as the ways we have done so in the past are now gone and no longer available to us that could make travel to the other remaining Shards possible, if even hypothetically. There is just too much now demanding our attention on the Source now as it is so we really don't have time to do further Shard-hopping, that's just facing facts.
    (5)
    Last edited by Enkidoh; 07-28-2020 at 12:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rannie View Post
    Aaaaannnd now I just had a mental image of Lahabrea walking into a store called Bodies R Us and trying on different humans.... >.<

    Lahabrea: hn too tall... tooo short.... Juuuuuust right.
    Venat was right.

  2. #322
    Player
    Morningstar1337's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
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    3,492
    Character
    Aurora Aura
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 80
    Not to mention that strictly speaking,the Void does not have to be restored per se. Much like Auamrot, the original denizens of the Void were lost long ago.

    Likewise there isn't much reason to visit the other shards as the calamities can and had been prevented Source-side preventing the worlds from even meeting, the First was only an exception because the method of the 8th Calamity was something that also killed us and also something that was hard to prevent (being a chemical weapon and all).

    (this also means that we might face ourselves if the glowing people are WoL of dead shards and timelines is true)
    (2)

  3. #323
    Player RyuDragnier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    New Gridania
    Posts
    5,465
    Character
    Hayk Farsight
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 100
    I do not believe we'll ever go back to the 13th. I do however believe it will be repaired or on the way to be repaired at the end of the Eden raids thanks to the power of Eden itself to control aether. It created the Empty, and could potentially use the same power to recreate the 13th. But just like the First, it would take so long for the shard to be repaired completely that we'd never see the finished work.
    (0)

  4. #324
    Player
    MirronTulaxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    523
    Character
    Mirron Tulaxia
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Eden seems like a possible way for them to "fix" the 13th, and given that time between shards is not a 1:1 parallel they could always send Eden off and then have it be fixed when we manage to get there. As for how we get there, we know from the Magical DPS story in ShB that you can enter the rifts between the 13th and other areas without dying. While how that works and all the specifics of that aren't hammered out that's already a possible answer. More importantly if they want to do it they'll come up with some justification. Changing time is impossible, so says Alexander, until we get Shadowbringers and the Exarch does it. Hopping to other dimensions was also a one way trip, and now here we are doing it regularly. The methods done currently can't be replicated, but none of that omits a possible future variant. And more importantly if they want to they'll do it and just come up with some random explanation, that's how it works.
    (3)

  5. #325
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkidoh View Post
    Except we can't world-hop to other Shards even if we wanted to
    ... and we couldn't world-hop to the First either except as a soul, until Shadowbringers very much set up a completely new means to. That's just how a progressive narrative goes: "We can't do this right now, please come back later."

    Every expansion is literally "Hey look what we found, a Brand Spankin' New means/reason to travel to Place You Haven't Been." The means may not exist yet for us to do so at-will, but as soon as the writers find it relevant to execute, a path will open.

    Because anything is possible within the narrative if the writers will it to be so. Likelihood is not the same as possibility.

    yes minor rips allow Voidsent to enter the Source but they have to always possess a physical host in order to complete the 'jump' so to speak
    Which is an interesting point that's worth discussing, since it's repeatedly discussed AND USED AS A PLOT POINT that:
    1) The Crystal Exarch was able to forge aetheric vessels for the Scions' souls whom he Called (proper noun by Elidibus, implying it's an important term in magic, probably the same method used for summoning Voidsent) into the First so that they could interact with the world (which presumably Elidibus was able to do for Ardbert and his companions on the Source), and
    2) The Warrior of Light appears to be a unique case, in that they were able to be called to the First complete with their physical body and any belongings they possess. The means by which is this possible is never again expounded upon (only that the Scions hope to abuse it to get back via the auracite the Exarch is prepping), making it implicitly a unique property of the WoL given that this is a feat even Ardbert and his companions couldn't do.
    Not to mention that the Exarch is able to just... make a portal back to the Source within the Tower, which hasn't gone away with The Tycoon's destruction, just one that only the WoL can use.

    Not to beleaguer the point, but the story shows that's not really a limitation for us. In theory we could just hop through a rift summoned for a Voidsent, and we just happen to know a girl who can open those at-will.

    So both means are now unrepeatable
    All you're saying is the current means we've used are now unique to the locations we've used them to get to.
    Great.
    So if it ever becomes relevant for us to go - and I'm agreeing with you that's a big if - we'll use something else. Not "it's impossible and will never happen."
    (1)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 07-28-2020 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #326
    Player
    MrThinker's Avatar
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    Jan 2019
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    902
    Character
    Jakaar Rakkin
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Archwizard View Post
    Which is an interesting point that's worth discussing, since it's repeatedly discussed AND USED AS A PLOT POINT that:
    1) The Crystal Exarch was able to forge aetheric vessels for the Scions' souls whom he Called (proper noun by Elidibus, implying it's an important term in magic, probably the same method used for summoning Voidsent) into the First so that they could interact with the world (which presumably Elidibus was able to do for Ardbert and his companions on the Source), and
    Hold it right there, I can't really say much for your other points, because yes, IF they want us to do something in another Shard, they'll put something together, but on this point in particular, the English version clearly states that the Scions are literally corporeal spirits, not that the Exarch prepared vessels for them to interact with the world. The 'vessel' idea was a fan theory that people (including myself) were espousing before the expansion released, but has subsequently been debunked by the story.

    The truth on Ardbert and his companions remains unclear. Did Elidibus prepare bodies for them to possess like a common Ascian, or were they, like the Scions are now, corporeal spirits? The last time this was addressed, in an interview in 2017, we were told it was left deliberately vague to allow the player to come to their own conclusion. I'm personally on the corporeal spirit side of the argument, but the vessel side is equally valid.

    EDIT: (Forgot to add this before)

    2) The Warrior of Light appears to be a unique case, in that they were able to be called to the First complete with their physical body and any belongings they possess. The means by which is this possible is never again expounded upon (only that the Scions hope to abuse it to get back via the auracite the Exarch is prepping), making it implicitly a unique property of the WoL given that this is a feat even Ardbert and his companions couldn't do.
    While we aren't given the exact mechanism by which he did it, it was G'raha who pulled us through with magic, "cutting a hole in the fabric of reality through which only the target of the spell may pass unhindered", as he put it in the 5.1 MSQ. It's a unique property to us BECAUSE someone on the other side made it so, the Scions were summoned incomplete because they were not the target and G'raha wasn't that good with the spell, at first. Yes, it is also possible that someone on another Shard may do the exact same thing to pull us through, but the ability to travel between worlds with our body is not intrinsic to us, but extrinsic.

    Not to mention that the Exarch is able to just... make a portal back to the Source within the Tower, which hasn't gone away with The Tycoon's destruction, just one that only the WoL can use.
    It is implied The Tycoon was the main controlling mechanism that allowed The Crystal Tower itself to travel through time and dimensions; the time travel being what needed the most aether (See the side effects of Alexander's limited Time Travel) and thus the energies of the Tower, but opening rifts also takes quite a large amount as well, which is why Xande used the tower to open the Cloud of Darkness's rift, and let's not forget travelling through the rift apparently requires alien level technology reverse-engineered from a destroyed robot. The Exarch's portal instead seems to be born of the spell he used to pull us through, or if you think it is a more technical thing, based on the 'WoL/D-shaped' hole he made in space-time and focused on the beacon he used to lock onto us. Without the Tycoon, any time travel shenanigans by plot elements that were introduced prior in the story (optional branches of the story, but already present elements anyways) are currently not on the table, but this isn't about the time travel component so explanations on this are not of use to either of us.
    (6)
    Last edited by MrThinker; 07-28-2020 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Additions, Wording and Elaborations

  7. #327
    Player
    Vyrerus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    The Interdimensional Rift
    Posts
    3,597
    Character
    Vicious Zvahl
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    I'm still a little confounded by Tycoon. Gonna hafta review things when I get back there in my playthrough.
    (0)

  8. #328
    Player
    MrThinker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    902
    Character
    Jakaar Rakkin
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrerus View Post
    I'm still a little confounded by Tycoon. Gonna hafta review things when I get back there in my playthrough.
    Granted, I said "it is implied" like it was the only conclusion, but I should phrase it more "it implies to me and most anyone else I've discussed this with" due to the fact that the area we fight in (the Dimensional brake) shuts down after its defeat. You might come to a different conclusion.
    (0)
    Last edited by MrThinker; 07-28-2020 at 09:06 PM.

  9. #329
    Player
    Rannie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    3,079
    Character
    Rannie Lfey
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Didnt they make it seem like the other shards may be ignorant anyway of the original world being split? I mean most people on the source don't realize this either. (Granted it doesnt mean that there arent people on other shards who know this, but that does seem like they direction they were pushing it into). I mean even Ardbert and Co didnt know that other shards and the source really existed, (atleast not until closer to their end) or did I read that wrong?
    (1)

  10. #330
    Player
    Alleluia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,161
    Character
    Regana Redwyne
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    I'm still confused about how G'raha got the beacon to us in the first place. Has that ever been explained/touched on? It *is* something from the First/bad future, right? It had the Iron Works logo on it.
    (3)

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