Please Add Daily Challenge for Rival Wings and The Feast

[Kezzic]

If you're not out of touch then you're beyond any reasonable level of naive; especially since you don't even know the meaning of the word toxic. You constantly say you get it, only to directly contradict yourself by supporting your suggestion with concepts that would be suggested by someone who really doesn't.

More ad hominem attacks that do nothing to progress this conversation, and serve only to be mean spirited and demeaning.

"How would getting PvErs into PvP and making it pop ruin PvP compared to PvP not being there at all because it never pops?"
I mean you're asking people to do an activity, they don't really want to do purely for the rewards that benefits them outside of said activity, that is not a good model to work with.

Your premise is flawed. Your black/white dichotomy of “there are PVP players, and then there are PVE players” is naive and narrow-sighted. You assume there are simply two pools of players, pure PVP players and pure PVE players. This is simply not true, and frames the status quo as if people don’t queue for whatever they feel like playing at the time. Whatever you want to include as the reward is irrelevant to the fact that a Daily Challenge would boost PVP queue populations. It’s just a fact. You saying that “PVE” players queuing for PVP would degrade the experience is ridiculous. New players are necessary to your sacred format. Your gate keeping is what is killing the scene you allegedly claim to be propping up all on your own. *clap clap* You’re a hero, champ.

You are the one here that is confused, and your attitude to those that disagree with you is inflammatory, and hostile. You have done nothing to contribute to this thread but prance and prattle about your in-game know how, and have since continued to be braggadocious that you are the sole reason The Feast is populated. Stop taking everything as an attack? Stop making targeted arguments about people to make your point and instead why don’t you support your contentions based off of the merit of your arguments. It’s not a trait of the community, it’s clearly a trait of any person you interact with, because you’re aggressively adamant that everyone around you is some layman that can’t possibly understand what your in-group purports. Take some time to reread everything you’ve written here and really reflect on your impact on this thread.

[BloodRubyXII]

Snip

Precursor to this post, please respond in actual English that someone hears on a day to day basis, I really don't want to go through google translator everytime I gotta read one of your posts because someone bought you an Oxford dictionary for christmas. It's not my first language, half the time I can't understand half of what you're saying because you want to put the simplest of words across in a super elaborate manner, idk if this is a humble flex on being well educated or not but it's really annoying when A) you're trying to have a discussion with someone B) You want to actually respond to them without being incredibly frustrated because you're not sure if you're being understood.

Ironically, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. I invite you to come and spend a day with us and go through all the logs you want, you realise how hard we're trying and how many times we're literally trying to batter it into the collective SE mind (considering one of their CMs is in Paissa and is the best hope we have of communication) what we need for this activity to work. They care, else they wouldn't continue patching it. It's just they don't know what direction they really want. Let me know what you want me to do to turn "allegedly" into "actually is happening". That's not a brag, that is because you called me defeatist like I've given up on the modes/activity, which is fundementally untrue.

OT again, making stuff that I've apparently written up as you go along, I do both for the record, I love raiding, I love PvPing. That doesn't mean everyone is the same as me, some only want to do one of the other, and the vast majority of this community, want to PvE. There has never been any question of daily challenges boosting PvP activity, it always has done, it always will. It only takes a hairstyle to make people play this mode. The issue I have with your whole concept is one that never ever really got addressed. PvP is not enjoyable. Sometimes even the rewards aren't even man, people ask me "hey where's that mount/hair/armor etc" from and the moment I mention it's PvP, even their lust for glams isn't enough to overcome how little they enjoy PvP. The problem is (and please prove me wrong, maybe we can actually have a discussion that doesn't involve you hopping on the defensive for 90% of the post, losing the 10% of your post that addresses it) you will probably argue that's a subjective opinion and the reason people don't do it is because they have nothing to gain.

I have nothing to gain from PvPing really, that's of significance. I own the mounts, I'm ladder safe on multiple chars, but those were never the reasons I touched the PvP modes, I do it because it's fun. I don't celebrate the tome events because I want the stuff from the vendor. Christ man I don't even care if I lose, it's because I absolutely adore rival wings and clutch onto whatever bait is laid out for me to be able to play it for even just a few hours. There was nothing sadder than the queues outlasting me in Feb-April (ie still popping after I went to bed, not literally sending me to bed) because I knew it was never going to last once everyone got what they wanted from the vendor. I don't have over half a dozen NA/JP chars because I want to play there with 250+ ping dude, it's because I don't want to be limited to the 3-4 hours a day PvP happens to be active on my region. That for me, absolutely blows and I hate it so much.

Basically this is a really long winded way of me saying the mode needs to be enjoyable because we can even talk about rewards that just extend the life support this activity is on. That is literally all I've ever been trying to tell you all along, but I don't feel like you understand this and that is why I repeatedly tell you you don't. It's not because I'm trying to treat you like some kind of dick man, when will you get it lol; trust me, if I didn't think this was worth the effort, I would have never replied to you, it's because I'm still hoping that you won't just see where I'm coming from, but address the points directly instead of using the initial concept you put forward as an argument. Some of my earlier points were about how it's not constructive for the activity, a point which I also don't think you understood, if you did, reiterate, because all you did was take it as some kind of attack.

To readdress that point is short as possible because this is already a mammoth of a post but I'm trying to cover a lot, the reason why I keep saying elaborately "you have no idea what you're about" which imo, you respond to way more aggressively than I put that across to you; is because that is what years of queueing PvP game modes and having people just outright afk or throw matches because the modes aren't fun, but there's stuff they want from it and when you try to get them to play properly its "man im just here for the exp". From what I understand you want the modes to be more active; assumably because you want to PvP right? The part we aren't going to agree on is the "at all costs" measures you seem to want to take to get there, like sod it if the matches suck, at least it pops. Which on the flipside is something I don't want again. Not because I'm extremely toxic and hostile, but because it is absolutely unenjoyable to PvP when people on your team would clearly rather be doing anything else, but need their dailies done. I don't care if I lose, but I at least wanna have fun.

[Kezzic]

Precursor to this post, please respond in actual English that someone hears on a day to day basis [..] idk if this is a humble flex [...]

No, it’s not a flex, and I apologize if I said anything you didn’t understand— vocabulary-wise. Honestly, I didn’t even think about it as I wrote it, it was stream of consciousness. I’ll chill out.

But also going forward, I’m just going to ignore all the needless ad hominem BS, which you continue to include. Tip: it’s anytime you divert the argument and use the word “You”. The way you argued in general throughout your posts derailed the conversation to focus on how you were speaking. You seem frustrated I am so defensive, surprise I was frustrated too with the way you forced me to eschew from the matter at hand. You actually addressed some key points that are at the root of our disagreement, so I’ll carry on— but honestly it didn’t have to be like this to make your argument.

I do both for the record, I love raiding, I love PvPing. That doesn't mean everyone is the same as me, some only want to do one of the other, and the vast majority of this community, want to PvE.

And I would argue that the vast majority don’t play PVP because it’s not highlighted or incentivized at all. We don’t actually disagree here, and you and I both want the same thing. People don’t just want to only play PvE. I’d say they just don’t want to play FF14’s PVP because of how it’s designed. (The same flaws you mention— I don’t disagree)

There has never been any question of daily challenges boosting PvP activity, it always has done, it always will. [...]

Cool, we agree there. The part that we disagree about is at the bottom.

PvP is not enjoyable. The problem is you will probably argue that's a subjective opinion and the reason people don't do it is because they have nothing to gain.

I don’t disagree with you. PVP is not in a good state, I’d even take old-PVP system back at this point. But a complete overhaul of PVP doesn’t have to predate adding the Daily Challenges. Honestly it’s a drop in the bucket, but at least I’d be able to play these damned modes. I’ll elaborate more below because this bleeds into our disagreement.

I don't want to be limited to the 3-4 hours a day PvP happens to be active on my region. That for me, absolutely blows and I hate it so much.

Neither do I. Now imagine being on a data center with significantly less activity than that. Imagine how desperate I am for any PVP outside of Frontlines. I too have played for years, and even in the sorry, neglected state that PVP is in, I still want to play Rival Wings and The Feast. I literally can’t outside of 1 day of the week, during a specific timezone’s peak hours. We agree here.