Shared Classes Are Not Failures (ie SCH/SMN)

[ItMe]

What I gathered, was exactly how the game currently exists, but making a bit more sense of it.

That is....

AST magically being level 30 when you unlock it. Instead of the same level as say RDM and SAM, or even GNB and DNC.

But they dont.

For no reason.

To me, now THAT is nonsense.

I know this was posted awhile ago, but as far as I can tell this still hasn't been addressed so I figured I'd shed some light on the pattern.

GNB and DNC start at 60.
They were added in 5.0 and the pevious expansions level cap was 70.
You have 10 levels to ease you into the class before you can start using it in the new expansion.

RDM and SAM start at 50.
They were added in 4.0 and the previous expansions level cap was 60.
You have 10 levels to ease you into the class before you can start using it in the new expansion.

AST, MCH, and DRK start at 30.
They were added in 3.0 and the previous expansions level cap was 50.
They gave you 20 levels to ease into them here because this is before SE decided on the "-10 levels from the previous expansions level cap" pattern.
But they did decide in Heavensward that they didn't wanna have the new classes start at level 1 (like SCH did) because they wanted players to be able to use the new classes in the new expansion relatively quickly.

[AceofRains]

I know this was posted awhile ago, but as far as I can tell this still hasn't been addressed so I figured I'd shed some light on the pattern.

GNB and DNC start at 60.
They were added in 5.0 and the pevious expansions level cap was 70.
You have 10 levels to ease you into the class before you can start using it in the new expansion.

RDM and SAM start at 50.
They were added in 4.0 and the previous expansions level cap was 60.
You have 10 levels to ease you into the class before you can start using it in the new expansion.

AST, MCH, and DRK start at 30.
They were added in 3.0 and the previous expansions level cap was 50.
They gave you 20 levels to ease into them here because this is before SE decided on the "-10 levels from the previous expansions level cap" pattern.
But they did decide in Heavensward that they didn't wanna have the new classes start at level 1 (like SCH did) because they wanted players to be able to use the new classes in the new expansion relatively quickly.

We did discuss this as well. At the time of release those level gates made sense. They especially feared having a situation like Arcanist’s release where everyone floods the story climb on a single job. However, Arcanist was a special case scenario. Since levels transferred over from 1.0 where leveling was abusively easy, and they only added a DPS class that could heal post 30, naturally it made for longer queue times. Everyone had everything maxed so Arcanist was the only new thing to pick up.

Then we had our HS trio. They simply didn’t want people to rush the story on a new job because it would take too much away from old content like fates and dungeon queues. However, these job unlocks are gates into the expansion. Unlike jobs that came after, which are available in ARR areas.

Now that we are here. I’m arguing that it’s time to drop that method. We have more than enough jobs. If someone wanted to take their 80 Conjurer-Geomancer through the story immediately, that should be their prerogative. There are always new rewards to other jobs that mitigate everyone from playing the same thing through the climb. And when 1 class has 2 jobs, it helps queue times pop faster, because people will gravitate towards what ever will get them into a queue faster. On top of that, queue times are even less a problem since you now have trusts to party with as you progress the story.

Overall, level gates acted as an artificial inhibitor that no longer serves a real purpose.

[Daniolaut]

I know this was posted awhile ago, but as far as I can tell this still hasn't been addressed so I figured I'd shed some light on the pattern.

The reason its not been addressed, is because the people who came here bashing the OP without any rhyme and reason constantly call me a troll for doing the very thing this person did. That was posting something they think is a solid idea, and explaining why they think its a good idea.

Using logic in the forums makes you very unpopular. Calling people trolls and insulting them, makes you popular.

So I'm likely put on peoples ignore list. Which i'm perfectly fine with. It saves me the trouble of ignoring them.

Hopefully eventually all the actual trolls will be ignored and the people who care about logic and reason will possibly have a discussion one day. Although new people join often, so I doubt thats going to happen. But you can always hope!


Now, for the topic. I'm aware "why" the jobs were released at the levels they were released. I'm saying the inconsistency is nonsense. Especially to a new player.

This proposed idea cleans it all up.

The argument against it so far has been only "you're lazy" and "coding/its hard."

When all the systems for it are already in place.

Jobs sharing exp already exists, and level sync already exists. This, to my knowledge address' every single issue that can arise.

And no, OP is not asking for them to share skills. He literally asked they ONLY share EXP and nothing else.

Again, all this does, is clean up the exp progression. For people who level all jobs, they unlock classes already leveled. For people who dont, they dont have them leveled.

This in my opinion reduces people having jobs leveled and not knowing how they work.

Unlike OP, I would only link similar jobs though. DRK to WAR, and GNB to PLD as examples.

I also prefer to have things to do, and classes to start at level 1, but I also prefer things to make sense more than "having things to do."


Also, blaming 1.0 for all the problems is also nonsense.

People cant glorify Naoki Yoshida for "creating a brand new game from scratch" then also blame 1.0 for all of 2.0's issues. Did he create a brand new game with brand new servers, or did he do something "great" and "fix" a "horrible" game. It cant be both.

Lastly FFXI is a thing. So saying 2.0 has horrible coding because of 1.0 which FFXI was created by the same team as 1.0, yet it is to this day the most successful Final Fantasy, is a bit ridiculous.

FFXIV 1.0 is not even as close to being as bad as people make it out to be. if it was... then blaming 2.0's coding on 1.0... means 2.0 cant possibly be good/and-or Naoki Yoshida cant be credited for the success of 2.0, as he has taken a lot from version 1.0. Which in fact he has. He didnt create Elezen, Roegadyn, Eorzea, Miqo'te, Ishgard, Coerthas, even Hydaelyn. The 1.0 team did most all the work for FFXIV 2.0. All the 2.0 team did was lower the graphics demand and make the game more "user friendly." Again, they need to pick their argument.

[AceofRains]

x.

Hmm interesting. The reason I was intentional about avoiding, for example, all the tanks in a pairing was to give the options for at least some DPS classes to go the other route altogether and become a Tank and vice versa. I do like your approach, and I did think about it that way at first actually. But when it came down to it, there’s an option for everything under my pairings. There’s alternatives tanking, healing, or DPS in style. Or there are alternatives to swapping your role in general

And I have to say, 1.0 was the Bee’s Knees, problematic as it was.. I wish all the time I could back that- despite it nearly frying my computer. Had a good nostalgia rush when I saw it one of today’s reddit posts. 1.0 was def one of the biggest highlights of the end of my teenage years.

And again, thank you for standing up for me. I think this topic is going to start evolving more because people are antsy for solutions to job homogenization among other things.

[Wiccan026]

Hopefully eventually all the actual trolls will be ignored and the people who care about logic and reason will possibly have a discussion one day. Although new people join often, so I doubt thats going to happen. But you can always hope!


Now, for the topic. I'm aware "why" the jobs were released at the levels they were released. I'm saying the inconsistency is nonsense. Especially to a new player.

This proposed idea cleans it all up.

The argument against it so far has been only "you're lazy" and "coding/its hard."

When all the systems for it are already in place.

Jobs sharing exp already exists, and level sync already exists. This, to my knowledge address' every single issue that can arise.

And no, OP is not asking for them to share skills. He literally asked they ONLY share EXP and nothing else.

Again, all this does, is clean up the exp progression. For people who level all jobs, they unlock classes already leveled. For people who dont, they dont have them leveled.

This in my opinion reduces people having jobs leveled and not knowing how they work.

Unlike OP, I would only link similar jobs though. DRK to WAR, and GNB to PLD as examples.

I also prefer to have things to do, and classes to start at level 1, but I also prefer things to make sense more than "having things to do."


Also, blaming 1.0 for all the problems is also nonsense.

People cant glorify Naoki Yoshida for "creating a brand new game from scratch" then also blame 1.0 for all of 2.0's issues. Did he create a brand new game with brand new servers, or did he do something "great" and "fix" a "horrible" game. It cant be both.

Lastly FFXI is a thing. So saying 2.0 has horrible coding because of 1.0 which FFXI was created by the same team as 1.0, yet it is to this day the most successful Final Fantasy, is a bit ridiculous.

FFXIV 1.0 is not even as close to being as bad as people make it out to be. if it was... then blaming 2.0's coding on 1.0... means 2.0 cant possibly be good/and-or Naoki Yoshida cant be credited for the success of 2.0, as he has taken a lot from version 1.0. Which in fact he has. He didnt create Elezen, Roegadyn, Eorzea, Miqo'te, Ishgard, Coerthas, even Hydaelyn. The 1.0 team did most all the work for FFXIV 2.0. All the 2.0 team did was lower the graphics demand and make the game more "user friendly." Again, they need to pick their argument.

There are so many things that you're twisting or just ignoring so I'm not going to waste energy going over everything again.

I was the one who mentioned "coding was hard"... and the reason why that's a valid argument (because I'm not even trying to focus really on if this is a good idea or not but rather why it would be a wasted effort, when at the end of the day it's to quicken leveling which isn't really needed if you're using the tools at their disposal and it can done be casually at that) any time and energy spent on trying to change the existing system to the way the OP wants would take a lot of effort due to how things are set up already in game. They never even went back and cleaned up jobs after they drastically changed them and there quests don't fully make sense anymore (Astrologian for example). We already have an expansion where content is gutted because they need to fix the ARR mess.... most players understand why this is necessary. I doubt the major population would be happy to tolerate another expansion with less content due fixing something most people do not have an issue with.