Shared Classes Are Not Failures (ie SCH/SMN)

[ItMe]

I’m so sorry I don’t want zombie out on this game for 18 hours a day so I can try out each flavor of icecream after a decade of playing.

I just watched someone in my FC take BRD from 1 to 80 in just over 2 weeks of casual playing.
Your hyperbole isn't constructive or appreciated.

[AceofRains]

I just watched someone in my FC take BRD from 1 to 80 in just over 2 weeks of casual playing.
Your hyperbole isn't constructive or appreciated.

You “watched” them over 2 weeks of “casual” playing. I’m playing casual Red mage 70-80 right now. Like literally 1 level a day. It’s week 2 and I’m 77. Your friend isn’t casually leveling. Casual is like logging in, doing dailies, run maybe a roulette or two and pop a level in upper levels. Semi casual is queuing for dungeons to maybe catch a few levels, which requires more investment of time. Hardcore means you’re running all day to hit the cap and sinking a lot of time into it. I’m not interested in sinking an obsessive amount of time for 20 jobs because it gets boring. What is actually wrong with cutting the amount that needs to be done to enjoy every job, literally in half? Nobody can seem to rationally point that out. I just do not get how that doesn’t make sense to you guys. It’s not hyperbole, it’s the reality of it. It’s funny because I blew off being social this weekend just to get a few levels and run daily’s.

[Mhaeric]

I'm impressed at the mental hoop jumping needed to claim that asking to level two jobs at the same time isn't asking for faster leveling. Sure, one of the jobs won't be leveled any faster than it is currently, but the other job would absolutely be leveled faster than it is now. Another way to put it is that it would take half the time to level two jobs as it takes right now or that it would double your character's overall leveling speed.

As for bringing up jump potions, those are a less effective alternative in the long run than the suggestion of leveling two jobs simultaneously is since they only partially level the job meaning that you still have to invest some additional time to finish leveling them up not to mention them having an actual cost. A jump potion is only better in the sense that it provides instant gratification. Leveling two jobs simultaneously is a delayed gratification but results in a larger benefit in the end: a completely free max level job for no extra effort or cost. And then there's the whole beast of the interaction of these two systems where jump potions would suddenly be twice as effective as they are now, so it's not like jump potions are something completely independent of this suggestion.

Edit: I see that the part of the previous post that I was responding to was clarified with an additional paragraph at the end. This was done while I was writing my post and I didn't see it until after I posted myself, so they probably realized the mental hoop jumping that they were doing on their own so added it. Leaving my post here since it's still a valid point.

[ItMe]

To reiterate, it’s not about how long it takes me to get 1 to 80. Every player can do that at their own pace. It’s about how much time it takes to do that 20 times.

If you wanna focus on that, my question is: how do you sell that to the devs?
The rate of levelling is fine for the average player.
Should we really speed it up for the people who wanna have every job at cap when that would effect everyone?
People making characters on preferred worlds right now are hitting cap by the end of heavensward. If anything it seems like this game needs to add some speed bumps to levelling.

Also, if you wanna level fast you gotta lean into squadrons and trusts.
They start out quite slow but after you build them up a bit they're EASILY the fastest way to level (though that slow start shouldn't be a problem if your aim is to level everything).
Also, do you have all the preorder exp accessories?
Do you eat?
I don't know how levelling more than once a day around 77 is so unbelievable to you, even playing casually.

[AceofRains]

If you wanna focus on that, my question is: how do you sell that to the devs?
The rate of levelling is fine for the average player.
Should we really speed it up for the people who wanna have every job at cap when that would effect everyone?
People making characters on preferred worlds right now are hitting cap by the end of heavensward. If anything it seems like this game needs to add some speed bumps to levelling.

Also, if you wanna level fast you gotta lean into squadrons and trusts.
They start out quite slow but after you build them up a bit they're EASILY the fastest way to level (though that slow start shouldn't be a problem if your aim is to level everything).
Also, do you have all the preorder exp accessories?
Do you eat?
I don't know how levelling more than once a day around 77 is so unbelievable to you, even playing casually.

I don’t mind taking my time with leveling, ya know like I said doing it 20 times to enjoy the pinnacle of each job is what’s awful.

How do I sell that to the devs? I don’t know. I tried to edit the main post to clearly explain my thoughts on the matter, because admittedly my original sentiments were too sloppy. I’ve been nothing but trampled on for discussing this topic, as if saving us all time is some terrible idea that shouldn’t even be suggested. I’ve had like one guy come in here and say what I’ve deduced is actually brilliant and useful. I’ve been so clear that it’s not about sharing abilities or anything that made it complicated to balance Summoner/Scholar. I’ve also been clear that it’s not about speedy leveling. And I’ve been clear that it can clean up a lot of outdated features in the game, especially for a better new player experience.

For now, I’m still enjoying the game as is. Not having this isn’t going to stop me from leveling the jobs that I usually enjoy and make time for, which is usually Healers, Casters, and Ranged. Whether I’d spend 1 hour or all day doing that is just a personal choice.

It is what it is. I probably will not see class consolidation come to fruition despite it being the literal point for the existence of job stones. Originally there weren’t enough jobs to warrant it, but by next expansion, there will be something for every class.

I can’t really be any more clear that it is the best venue of approach for all the content that is jam packed into this game. I can only hope someone more important heeds what I say.

[ItMe]

You're too convinced in the greatness of your idea.
It def has its upsides, but I don't think you understand why

I’ve been nothing but trampled on for discussing this topic,

[AceofRains]

You're too convinced in the greatness of your idea.
It def has its upsides, but I don't think you understand why

Can you sell an idea you don’t believe in?

It’s not my idea. It’s the original intention behind the job system. I’m like, way tired of repeating my self and trying to defend the idea. It’s time to let the thread die, the troll is come back for a snack anyhow.

[ItMe]

It’s not my idea. It’s the original intention behind the job system.

Was it the original intention?
I only started playing in 4.4, but I thought back in 1.0 and 2.0 the purpose was so to use skills from the other classes you levelled a la FF5.




Either way, I'm not sure I understand how

All jobs should share a base class with another job, SOLELY for exp purposes.

is really accomplishing this

It revives the obsolete class system

I know you said you wanted to just let the thread die, but I'm genuinely confused.
If you don't respond I understand and I'm sorry.

[AceofRains]

I’ve followed this game heavily since like 1.0 alpha. Yes it was the original intention. In 1.4 the stones were first introduced, and the idea was for there to be even more jobs where a class could thereby become other jobs with different specialization. For something like Gladiator to specialize and become Paladin or another job such as Dark Knight. It was supposed to be FFXIV’s answer to WoW’s talents. Developing more jobs just took a very long time. In the end they left the concept because balancing the shared abilities of summoner and scholar was chaotic. Having that 2 in 1 however, Arcanist is one of the most efficient classes to level first, which is why I almost always do it. When it came to the ShB role quests, I was able to experience the story sooner by leveling 3 job/classes instead of 4.

What you we’re thinking of is simply the old concept of cross class skills, which were like reward abilities for having another corresponding class leveled. While they tried to keep that up, eventually they scrapped that for role actions. I think role actions started in 4.0.

That being said, if jobs are tied to classes, Classes are now the vessel for leveling, not Jobs. Therefore, classes now have more purpose in existing then being a temporary placeholder until jobs become relevant.

Thank you actually for being so genuine. I was kinda getting down about it, I apologize.

[Shurrikhan]

Was it the original intention?
I only started playing in 4.4, but I thought back in 1.0 and 2.0 the purpose was so to use skills from the other classes you levelled a la FF5.

Yes and no.

Honestly, a large part of the confusion comes simply from the fact that 1.x intended one thing but did it so poorly that it trended in a different direction.

The original idea was to build up skills. Your character had one level, rather than one for each job/class. Your weapon proficiency ranks (quite purposely not called levels) which were secondary to character level, merely offering you additional skills.

You could thereby take various traits and skills from different weapon proficiencies (classes) in order to build your own job. Want to be an elemental gladiator? Go for it. The problem was that the intersections between the weapon styles were poorly thought out. Each class had its own themes, but they were neither impactful or modular enough to source a build-your-own job system in a meaningful way. The vision was there, but the implementation -- along with any depth via undermechanics to create space for that vision -- fell painfully short.

Had ARR gone the other way -- fixing what failed rather than abandoning it for only the barest parts of a WoW or XI experience -- you'd likely see a far more RPG-ish take on the game today, with a longer but more cohesive leveling experience, rather than what often feels like a way just to extend time played metrics. 'This shade of pre-packaged playstyle might be more to your liking than the others' becomes a carrot for which you repeat the same leveling experience over and over and over, just with slightly different combat spins of which none may particularly fit what you want, rather than having one that is distinctly your own.