Shared Classes Are Not Failures (ie SCH/SMN)

[AceofRains]

As the title suggests, I first would like to say that Scholar and Summoner are a success. I’m tired of pretending it’s not. Because the devs felt like it was some kind of failure and difficult to balance, the community as a whole seemed to have let HORIZONTAL growth go by the way side. Instead we can individually level almost 20 Jobs. Job Stones had such a cool vision back when I was a 1.0 player and they just dropped it because they could not make ability sharing work well between Scholar and Summoner. It's too stifling on design and I completely get that.

All jobs should share a base class with another job, SOLELY for exp purposes. It does not mean they necessarily share the same role, or abilities. This is a means to consolidate level progression, and give players flexible options when it comes to end game metas. Only have Arcanist at 80? That’s cool because I can choose to Heal or DPS. Couldn’t get into that group because I only leveled Pugilist, and Monk isn’t optimal for this raid, that’s cool because I can become a Dancer, which is.

I don’t want to level 20 different jobs to 80. It takes an obnoxious amount of effort to do it especially as more jobs get added. At first it was fun trying to max all my jobs, then I said okay only Healers and Ranged. Then in Shadowbringers I did one of each role, which is actually nice to have, but it’s so easy to get burnt out on the leveling grind- especially if it’s going to take getting that many jobs to max. At the end of the day, it's way too much. I want to be able to enjoy trying out every job at their max capacity, but level grinding 20 different jobs is a pain in the rear. And while I'm not advocating for increased exp or level skips that bring you to 80, I am advocating for reducing the amount of Jobs to level as to also revive the class system. The reality is that the jobs that I have leveled now, took YEARS, almost a decade, of playing this game to achieve. That's not palatable to a new player what so ever. Leveling for Crafting and Gathering has been streamlined by the addition of the Firmament. Because of this, I am FINALLY taking the time to level these Disciplines, whereas I missed out on them before. Leveling Disciplines of War and Magic need streamlining as well.

BIG EDIT - I apologize for less structure in my original post. Maybe I was not very clear with my message, but I also needed to discuss this with other people to better understand my own thoughts. Thank you to those who bring up valid points of discussion even if you disagree. Trolls and those who do not contribute to discussion will be ignored from here out, and I will be using the report button liberally.

This is what I’m proposing as a shared class structure. If you have better ideas about it, even if you don't care for this kind of system, I'd be happy to hear where you choose to pair expansion jobs with a class.

Gladiator - Paladin & Dark Knight
Why did I group these together?
-Gladiator gets 2 Tank Jobs, because it is the "primary" tank.
-Paladin and Dark Knight are polar opposites and been so since FFIV's Cecil famously changing jobs.
-Paladin and Dark Knight do not have the same tanking style, allowing for specialization.

Marauder - Warrior & Machinist
Why did I group these together?
-The Marauder's guild features gun users among the Yellow Jackets, known as Musketeers.
-Marauder can be DPS or Tank, depending on your needs.
-Warrior and Machinist are heavier damage dealers among their role categories.

Lancer - Dragoon & Gunbreaker
Why did I group these together?
-The Gunbreaker quest already starts very close to the Lancer's guild.
-Gunbreaker is already a more heavy damage Tank.
-If Gunbreaker were a DPS job, it would probably wear Maiming Gear.

Pugilist - Monk & Dancer
Why did I group these together?
-In 1.0, Pugilist could initially use Chakrams for ranged attacks.
-Many of us thought Lyse would be a Dancer with her fluid movements, but she's a Monk.
-One could pair Samurai here, but I'm intentionally avoiding jobs that are functionally similar in a pairing.

Archer - Bard or Samurai
Why did I group these together?
-Most players according to a poll would prefer Bard to be a more supportive job.
-Archery is a common skill for Samurai, and not just according to FFXI.
-One could pair Dancer here, but I'm intentionally avoiding jobs that are functionally similar in a pairing.

Rogue - Ninja & Red Mage
Why did I group these together?
-Ninja's rotation is about fighting at melee range using jutsu at range.
-Red Mage's rotation is opposite, fighting at range and entering melee.
-This wasn't an easy decision to pair, but I wouldn't want to give RDM to Conjurer or Thaumaturge.

Conjurer - White Mage & Geomancer
Why did I group these together?
-Both (If Geomancer is the new healer) have different ways of playing the role, like PLD and DRK.
-White Mage has gone further from its "roots" as a nature mage, and now uses light magic.
-We heavily anticipate Geomancer as a new job. Conjurer as a nature class, matches Geomancer.

Thaumaturge - Black Mage & Astrologian
Why did I group these together?
-Thaumaturgy is an introspective art. Similar to reading cards.
-Y'Shtola and Urianger both became Black Mage and Astrologian as their darkworld counterparts.
-Black Mage is to White Mage as Astrologian is to Geomancer.

Arcanist - Summoner & Scholar
This Is The Example.
-Does not need explination.

No Class or Animist - Blue Mage & Beast Master
Why did I group these together?
-Blue Mage can do a lot, but it cannot become a Physical Ranged DPS, which is the gap not filled.
-Beastmaster will clearly be the new job, some in game hints point towards this.
-Blue Mage and Beastmaster have always been complimentary.

How Does This Impact New Players And Existing Players
For existing players, who have unlocked the expansion job, the lower job will be brought up to the higher job's level. Like if my Machinist were 80 but my Marauder/Warrior was 50, after consolidation I would be an 80 Marauder that can either become Warrior or Machinist.

For new players who unlock an expansion job, like Dark Knight, the job will be automatically tied to Gladiator's level. If they have not played Gladiator at all, then Dark Knight will also be level 1.

PROS & CONS
What are the benefits of consolidation?
-Less level grinding for those who do not have time to grind so much
-Class selection for new players is more meaningful.
-More opportunity for players to queue for duty finder faster under a different role.
-Cleaning up arbitrary level gates in earlier content, that made sense back then but does not now.
-Having 2 specialty jobs under 1 class at max level allows the developers to focus a tiny bit less on homogenizing between roles.

What are the drawbacks?
-Less level grinding for those who like level grinding.
Objection:If you like grinding that much, you can always start new character.
-More work for developers to re-edit old content.
Objection:The developers are always improving the game, its just part of their processes.
-I feel that it treads on class lore.
Objection:Class lore and job lore are already essentially separate entities. Doing this won't impact lore. It only improves systems.
-Existing players who benefit consolidation, or players who don't touch the other job while leveling might not know how to do their job right!
Objeciton: Mogstation currently sells level skip and content skips. Scholars can play Summoner and vice versa. Players will learn and adapt. Anyone can play bad or make mistakes on a job they have played often. Additionally, many players may take an extended break from the game yet find a job they have maxed to be reworked or need to remember how to play it. Babying others is not your job.

[Mhaeric]

That's a lot of nonsense for something that is just for "I want to level 2 jobs at the same time."

[AceofRains]

That's a lot of nonsense for something that is just for "I want to level 2 jobs at the same time."

I’m stating a case, not begging for what I want.

If you don’t have anything important to say, kindly leave.

[HeulGDarian]

That's a lot of nonsense for something that is just for "I want to level 2 jobs at the same time."

Smn and sch is indeed a success after they fixed it back in stormblood. The rest of the ideas though are not going to be succesful.

The reason Smn and Sch work is cause they are specializations of their main class , they are a different version of the same flavor of job with one getting abilities for summoning while the other focusing more on healing , not only that since their lore talks about the same art , arcanima , it means that some stuff intermingle , for example we learn from summoner that we use the pure essence of a primal to summon and that it is not conscious , yet the summons of scholar show consciousness , they remember their old master and they stopped us from killing them , they can even guide us to stuff. Yet the way summoner and scholar summon stuff is the same one arcanist uses .

The other jobs dont have such kind of bond , so it would literally be completely pointless and a major plothole . What common ground does a guy who blasts other with dark arts using their own aether , with someone that uses the constellations coresponding to the twelve in order to heal and put out beneficial effects have.

[Mhaeric]

I’m stating a case, not begging for what I want.

You know what? I don’t want to level 20 different jobs to 80.

You beg to differ with yourself.

[AceofRains]

Interesting because that’s where I said something I don’t want. But if you insist on being a troll.

To reference your signature, I’m trying to petition for an expanded option at the behest of others.

It’s not about me. It’s about every player’s experience. Are you going to argue that having 20 individual jobs is worthwhile
Or did you come to this thread to be an asshole. If it’s the later then see your self out, thank you.

[AceofRains]

I would say they have a lot in common. Weird how Y’stola and Urianger became BLM and AST as darkworld counterparts. They are both also introspective arts. Warriors and Machinists may not have a lot in common, but there are those who practice with guns in the Marauders guild.

Probably the biggest stretch for commonality is Rogue to Red Mage.

But this isn’t really about lore either. The job lores easily stand independent of class lores. It’s about hijacking the old class system to breath life into horizontal growth.

The Gladiator NPC isn’t going to tell you to go to Ishgard and become a Dark Knight like she does with Paladin. The option, shared by EXP would simply be there when you get there.

[Mhaeric]

I'm saying your suggestion is pointless except as a way to level the 20 jobs faster which you yourself were very clear about. Your entire post was quite explicit that it was entirely about being able to level multiple jobs simultaneously. Everything about your suggestion is just window dressing to that. At least SMN and SCH are actually linked in some way other than via xp.

[AceofRains]

This is really the last response I’m going to entertain with you. I’m a player of this game and I’d consider my self an investor at this point. I have as much a right for my voice to be heard on these forums as well. There are people out there who probably feel the same way as I do about it. All the more reason for me to voice my concern. So for the 3rd and final time, kindly buzz off.

[Mhaeric]

I didn't say you weren't allowed to state your position or opinion. I'm telling you what my opinion of your suggestion is. You even asked people to do this in your original post. I suppose you only wanted/expected people to agree with you, but things don't always work out that way.

I think your suggestion is bad. No, you should not be able to level up more than one job at the same time. The only reason SMN/SCH can do this is because of the original planned design which they quickly realized doesn't work well in practice. It does not need to be tacked onto other jobs that have nothing whatsoever in common with each other.