Endgame content is too stressfull and difficult

[RylaBee]

What do you mean?
Open your Duty Finder window and compare anything that's for 70-80, add Overworld content(Hunts, Fates etc...) and then go to Raid Finder and compare literally anything there.

It doesn't take a mathematician to observe that there's a lot more content for casual players compared to hardcore players.

Also compare how many expert recipes there are in the Firmanent to how many macro-able recipes there are(which is pretty much all of them except Expert Recipes).

Sure 90% is pretty wrong, cause it's probably a lot closer to 98% of the recipes that are macro-able.

What I mean is that this is DUNGEONS forum and topic of this thread is lack of PVE content
Crafting, Fishing, Gathering or collecting anything is not PVE content.

The issue on the platter is, that there is storymode (trivial) PVE content on one side, and hardcore raiding on the other.

What is almost completely missing is mid-tier challenge, that is not endgame raiding.

[ItMe]

Crafting, Fishing, Gathering or collecting anything is not PVE content.

I'm confused...
If Disciples of the Land are not Player vs Environment content... What are they?
They sure aren't PvP.

[Tint]

The problem is not only the missing mid-tier challenge, but a big problem lies within the tomestone gear. It is so good that it makes every other content except savage raids obsolete. Why investing time to get the normal mode raid gear, relic gear or 24-man raid gear?
Just run expert roulette and you are good.

The whole (gear) progression in this game centers around savage raiding. Normal mode gear is obsolete on release because of crafted gear. And then you go into the savage raid and when you don't get loot you can buy the tomestone gear as a safety net.
In the odd numbered patches people can "catch up" with the gear. But catching up for what?

This whole concept doesn't keep in mind that there are lots of people who have no interest to enter savage raids. Ever.

And the content these people are interested in does nothing for your character progression. You can't get better by playing this content, you just are getting new glamour gear while you are actually using the freebies from expert roulette.

The progression leads to savage raids and nothing else. No wonder all kinds of people end there even if they don't have interest in doing that content. There simply is nothing else meaningfull to do.

[Billythepancake]

The problem is not only the missing mid-tier challenge, but a big problem lies within the tomestone gear. It is so good that it makes every other content except savage raids obsolete. Why investing time to get the normal mode raid gear, relic gear or 24-man raid gear?
Just run expert roulette and you are good.

The whole (gear) progression in this game centers around savage raiding. Normal mode gear is obsolete on release because of crafted gear. And then you go into the savage raid and when you don't get loot you can buy the tomestone gear as a safety net.
In the odd numbered patches people can "catch up" with the gear. But catching up for what?

This whole concept doesn't keep in mind that there are lots of people who have no interest to enter savage raids. Ever.

And the content these people are interested in does nothing for your character progression. You can't get better by playing this content, you just are getting new glamour gear while you are actually using the freebies from expert roulette.

The progression leads to savage raids and nothing else. No wonder all kinds of people end there even if they don't have interest in doing that content. There simply is nothing else meaningfull to do.

If you have 0 interest in savage then the gear dropped by savage raids should mean nothing to you. They literally do nothing but help you push parses on savage, if that is not something you care about, then bis means nothing, especially since a lot of regular content gets ilevel synced anyway.

[MistakeNot]

The problem is not only the missing mid-tier challenge, but a big problem lies within the tomestone gear. It is so good that it makes every other content except savage raids obsolete. Why investing time to get the normal mode raid gear, relic gear or 24-man raid gear?
Just run expert roulette and you are good.

Or just ignore the boring roulettes and buy a set of crafted gear from the MB.
Plenty good enough, and takes all of five minutes to get.

It might still be worth investing time to get some of the other gear - for glamour, which we all know is the real endgame.

[Payotz]

What I mean is that this is DUNGEONS forum and topic of this thread is lack of PVE content
Crafting, Fishing, Gathering or collecting anything is not PVE content.

Uhh, I just supplemented that information to make a point that there's just a lot of casual content for folks that don't want to do Savage and Ultimate raiding.

If you're a raider, and what you're really after is just Savage Raiding and Ultimate Raiding, you'll pretty much just clear the tier, and login again every week to clear it again, and then if there's no Ultimate this tier, you just unsub until the next raid tier.

If you're casual and just is pretty much challenged by Normal content, then you're gonna still have a lot more satisfaction running 24 mans, running Expert dungeons, maybe trying to tank wall to wall for once, and etc...

There's gonna be a lot more stuff for you to do compared to someone who just wants to raid all day everyday.

The issue on the platter is, that there is storymode (trivial) PVE content on one side, and hardcore raiding on the other.

What is almost completely missing is mid-tier challenge, that is not endgame raiding. It had a decent challenge with how the mobs behavior works, but it's not something you prog, it's just something you do.

I know you said mid-tier challenge that is not endgame raiding, but honestly that "mid-tier" challenge already exists. EX Trials.

The content has very forgiving mechanics, a checkpoint system(for Ruby Wpn), a very forgiving dps check (back when the expansion launched, you can pretty much clear Inno Ex with 12 deaths in bare minimum 430 ilvl gear that they give you for free) and proper rewards that actually help you when you start Raiding Savage (The AF gear from Memoria and Ruby Wpn weapon if you don't like the free Relic), and even a crafting material and a mount. This is essentially the baby's first raid tier when they want to start raiding for real.

Though if we're talking about a "mid-tier challenge but not endgame raiding" then there's already one on the way for the upcoming "catch-up patch", Relics.

Eureka back in SB was basically the casual "mid-tier challenge". It was tedious sure, but it was something to do at end game if you don't like raiding.

I reckon the upcoming Relic battle content they're teasing is gonna be your "mid-tier challenge but not endgame raiding" content.

If it comes and you're disappointed by how trivial it is, then the next step is endgame raiding.
Just don't beg for nerfs if you're disappointed by a slight increase in difficulty.

[ForteNightshade]

If she was 100% right we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place.

Of course we will. There will always be people who both want the endgame gear from Savage yet don't want it to be too difficult. That defeats the entire point of Savage. It exists to be a challenge, which it currently is. If it's still too much, you have EX Primals to get your feet wet. While I don't enjoy certain things this tier in particular, if you reduced the difficult much more, what's even the point? It's essentially complaining about a game having a Very Hard mode because you can't beat it.

[HeulGDarian]

Uhh, I just supplemented that information to make a point that there's just a lot of casual content for folks that don't want to do Savage and Ultimate raiding.

If you're a raider, and what you're really after is just Savage Raiding and Ultimate Raiding, you'll pretty much just clear the tier, and login again every week to clear it again, and then if there's no Ultimate this tier, you just unsub until the next raid tier.

If you're casual and just is pretty much challenged by Normal content, then you're gonna still have a lot more satisfaction running 24 mans, running Expert dungeons, maybe trying to tank wall to wall for once, and etc...

There's gonna be a lot more stuff for you to do compared to someone who just wants to raid all day everyday.



I know you said mid-tier challenge that is not endgame raiding, but honestly that "mid-tier" challenge already exists. EX Trials.

The content has very forgiving mechanics, a checkpoint system(for Ruby Wpn), a very forgiving dps check (back when the expansion launched, you can pretty much clear Inno Ex with 12 deaths in bare minimum 430 ilvl gear that they give you for free) and proper rewards that actually help you when you start Raiding Savage (The AF gear from Memoria and Ruby Wpn weapon if you don't like the free Relic), and even a crafting material and a mount. This is essentially the baby's first raid tier when they want to start raiding for real.

Though if we're talking about a "mid-tier challenge but not endgame raiding" then there's already one on the way for the upcoming "catch-up patch", Relics.

Eureka back in SB was basically the casual "mid-tier challenge". It was tedious sure, but it was something to do at end game if you don't like raiding.

I reckon the upcoming Relic battle content they're teasing is gonna be your "mid-tier challenge but not endgame raiding" content.

If it comes and you're disappointed by how trivial it is, then the next step is endgame raiding.
Just don't beg for nerfs if you're disappointed by a slight increase in difficulty.

i have to say i really like that they put the door bosses in ex trials , its a genious way to keep the fight both hard and make it easier for new people since now they dont have to spend all their time repeating stuff they already know , they just do it once and then they can work on proging the next phase. it makes much more sense than putting it in savage .

[Payotz]

i have to say i really like that they put the door bosses in ex trials , its a genious way to keep the fight both hard and make it easier for new people since now they dont have to spend all their time repeating stuff they already know , they just do it once and then they can work on proging the next phase. it makes much more sense than putting it in savage .

I agree as well. I'm also glad they put the more cinematic fights in EX since they can just make every clear drop 2 totems for heavy cutscene fights.
It makes it fun to run EX just for the production value.

[JamieRose]

Of course we will. There will always be people who both want the endgame gear from Savage yet don't want it to be too difficult. That defeats the entire point of Savage. It exists to be a challenge, which it currently is. If it's still too much, you have EX Primals to get your feet wet. While I don't enjoy certain things this tier in particular, if you reduced the difficult much more, what's even the point? It's essentially complaining about a game having a Very Hard mode because you can't beat it.

I'm running out of things to do and EX/Savage is too stressful and difficult.

There's your point. Whine and bitch all you like about how you wanna feel special because your static clears E8S with highest damage numbers and your pointless parsing and all that other garbage minutiae that should have died with World of Warcraft.

We're 4 months out from the last major content patch with still another month to go. Doing the same boring content over and over again is putting me off this game. But the stress levels involved in raiding Savage and EX content are equally off putting. And the stress is even more when you're dealing with [Learning] parties who are generally filled with people who screw up so hard and so often that you're left literally wondering if they're doing it on purpose.

I've tried to find other things to do. I can't get a house because the suits decided to turn off auto-demolish. Diadem is boring. Eureka is boring. Leveling old jobs means doing the MSQ Roulette over and over and that's incredible boring! And I'd soon slash my wrists with a rusty fishing knife than subject myself to the god awful PvP in this game.

Get over yourself! You're not special just because you find endgame content easy.