General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[Saefinn]

Imo it's only fair to completely trust the healer until they have proven to be untrustworthy by letting you die. 1 death isn't that big of an issue and I'd rather give the healer a chance to have their fun and showcase their skill to fullest extend (in context).

Usually when I tank and Isee my health dropping low I'll watch what the healer is doing, if it looks like they know what they're doing, I don't worry and I just carry on without doing anything different. If it looks like they are struggling then I maay adjust my tanking. I might also observe their gear, because if they look like a high end raider, that give me an indicator that they're more likely in control and if the gear is low, I'll know I'm dealing with a lower geared healer. I also do the same with the tank when I'm healing them, because it might help indicate what I'm also able to get away with too.


But yeah, until the healer actually runs into trouble, I'd trust them. And 1 or 2 deaths or wipes is not a big deal.

[SamRF]

Usually when I tank and Isee my health dropping low I'll watch what the healer is doing, if it looks like they know what they're doing, I don't worry and I just carry on without doing anything different. If it looks like they are struggling then I maay adjust my tanking. I might also observe their gear, because if they look like a high end raider, that give me an indicator that they're more likely in control and if the gear is low, I'll know I'm dealing with a lower geared healer. I also do the same with the tank when I'm healing them, because it might help indicate what I'm also able to get away with too.


But yeah, until the healer actually runs into trouble, I'd trust them. And 1 or 2 deaths or wipes is not a big deal.

Yeah how I see it there's a difference between a healer letting your HP edge while spamming their GCD heal and one spamming their DPS. When it's DPS I'm assuming they know what they're doing and trust them while otherwise I might adjust, indeed going to depend on how the healer performs. Had very few encounters where healer just spammed dps while letting me die.

That's when I'm playing tanks other than WAR at least, being a WAR (at max lvl) you usually don't even need a healer so I'm not really worried regardless lol.

[Halivel]

Yeah how I see it there's a difference between a healer letting your HP edge while spamming their GCD heal and one spamming their DPS. When it's DPS I'm assuming they know what they're doing and trust them while otherwise I might adjust, indeed going to depend on how the healer performs. Had very few encounters where healer just spammed dps while letting me die.

That's when I'm playing tanks other than WAR at least, being a WAR (at max lvl) you usually don't even need a healer so I'm not really worried regardless lol.

There sure is a difference. If healer struggles to keep up while actually healing, it's either the problem in me as a tank or in them as a healer (not geared well, used defencive CDs in a bad way, used healing kit weirdly, etc). I personally wasn't talking about this case because it works differently. I was speaking about "hey I'm a dps!" healers. While most of the time runs are completely fine as it is, there also were plenty of examples when healer just forgot that he's a healer and despite me using every possible way to survy I still died, and it happened again and again to the point where you start wonder if you deal with a bot. This type of players should just switch to dps, which was my main point, but it's quite possible that I didn't word it properly.

[Shougun]

I think it's a good idea to have at least one healer that is more straight forward less scattered task (more boring basically to some people, yet calming and fun to others); although, I do also think there could be some more mechanics / perhaps a new job that fills in a void some healers want (I think an aggressive healer could be interesting but also I don't think it has to be offensive just more things to do to be optimal that also are found to be fun / interesting).

Something I thought might be fun with scholar and it's whole poison/disease vibe was that art of war had an inner radius (and the outer standard radius, making concentric circles). Where you'd have extra damage in the inner radius and with a new contagion mechanic you could use that inner radius had chance to spread through. With a combo system interacting with the new contagion effects (the ruins and aoe, interacting in non-standard ways to create new decision trees), to encourage playing different than 'standard' without adding anymore bloat buttons. Requiring situational awareness on a few levels, seeing who you want to hurt the most while hitting the rest of the group, watching the effects of your contagion spread and responding with the correct spell for best results. That was the short of it at least, there was a lot more written on the new contagion mechanic, creating ground zero zones, and the bonuses spells gave for broiling/lancing the debuff- to create a sort of situational monster composition awareness dance.

Back when we had bigger issues with the % buffs with AST, I had thought potency baked buffs could be interesting and well balanced. I used this concept in the aggressive dark healer thread a while ago, something like 'hemorrhaging spine' which causes the target to take extra damage UP TO x potency (perhaps with a debuff like slow AS/MS, obviously the slow doesn't work on bosses). In this way the damage is mostly done by allies but technically it's at your behest. Or maybe a healer could cast blinding radiance on an ally that causes them to deal damage over time in a radius around the target (with like every other interval an enemy may become temporarily pacified). Offensive support spells. In the thread was also a damage pet, one that did single target + debuff and one that did aoe + debuff- something that might mix up a dynamic a bit (debuffs creating a sort of cure effect, monsters that do less damage in a convoluted way really 'healing').

For AST, bit of a random aside but... lol, it might be something fun like creating a portal to space below their feet, and in a large radius around that center any player with an AST buff gets a concentric circle (making a sort of solar system like diagram), X + 1 solar tendrils leak out from the center hole in space and grab enemies (may grab one target, but they'll be splayed out then and curve back into the target for visual neatness), X = number of AST buffs (+1 so there is always 1), the circles that create the orbit on each buffed player will grow or shrink to match their position but the planet / star that represents them rides the circle and will orbit the room. Each completed cycle heals them (larger heals the further away but less often due to travel time, 1:1 calculation so no loss just different timings based on distance). If the AST stands on a player's orbit the orbit moves faster (thus healing more often- only for one player so no clever stacking of circles though, the orbit lines will have some give so you don't have to be pixel perfect). If standing on the sun your AST buffs last longer (or something else to help players who need to get their buffs in order). Using the correct buff (role type) on a player will heal them more, so randomly throwing buffs works but is not as rewarding as getting it right. At the end the sun clears the room with a nova, damaged based on hp restored from that spell specifically (up to X potency).

Also in that dark healer thread was monster cure concept, such that you could prevent damage from the source- like casting divine pacification might prevent the next 1000 potency for 10 seconds, more interesting if during that time you could bump up the prevention with other actions (glare or something boosting the potency prevented, in such a way you don't feel like you're abandoning your identity to prevent damage yet you're still getting to do other things). Huge problem if you created a whole healer that only did monster 'cures' lol (no control over what damage you stop- could be the floor dragoon collecting orange or could be your main tank, and if spammable would make things super EZ- hence should be oGCD with cooldown), but if it was an oGCD sort of concept and so long as it fit the healer's theme I think it would be fine (I made it divine here just cause, but originally it was for the dark cultist/eldritich-y sort of healer thread). There's also some potential interest in making damage or cure spells cross the barrier, turning your healing kit into damage or if an aggressive healer like the dark theme thread turning your offensive spells defensive (would be wise to avoid cooldown based heals though, so you don't get healers blowing all their healing cooldowns for those deeps and then the community hating that job because too many casual players never have their healing cooldowns ready for tank busters).

Anyway, I think it's good to have a healer that's a bit calm.. like it's probably a good to have a tank that way too, but I don't think it's bad to try and spice things in theme or add a new one that does it differently for that missing playstyle some may want. So like even whichever calm healer is picked could also get more support offensives (spells cast on allies) which I think is a good choice for that job. Means you don't have to tab to monster that much, can continue to "support", but also add more value and things to do outside of just keeping everyone 100%. AST does this with the cards a bit but I think it's, due to the randomness, a bit too chaotic for someone who wanted something calming and probably a bit too simple for those who wanted something really active/chaotic lol. Keeping in mind just adding a single simple oGCD cooldown spell is not 'that much' spice lol (like if it was just a monster 'cure').. so might want to design the spell with that in mind if that's it's purpose and particularly if the feel is the job is far away from spice city (depending on how far away the job is, something simple might be just enough of a cherry while other jobs might value some more 'more'). Like perhaps a healer spell prayer that adds a shield for a short duration, has a short but tangible cooldown (5-10s+) and low cost and ideally oGCD, damage prevented being stored in a gauge/buff- when cast on the enemy it'll smite them for that damage collected with a growth curve to encourage higher collections. Due to the short duration and cooldown well timed prevention can mean casting more powerful smites more often. To really make it require engagement, and /not/ just tank spamming the ability, you can have it prevent recastsing the spell on the same player in a row, so the healer has to think and time it at least slightly. Of course outside of dungeons perhaps may be casted on self so it doesn't feel bad when you're alone.

[Elladie]

The entire "people who enjoy the role are in game and not the forums" isn't a good argument. At least not as a means to undervalue the importance of the negative feedback provided (consistently) on these forums regarding healers. There's an entire field built around customer feedback and how feedback numbers (negative or positive) can be translated into general customer satisfaction. Not only this but negative feedback is much more likely to domino effect and spread than good feedback. So in that regards it's even more important.
Of course, as others have pointed out it's also much harder to find healers this expansion than it ever has. And even harder to find career healers. There's a healer drought when it comes to statics for instance. This tends to indicate that even in game satisfaction is pretty low.
Besides, like I said, how boring you find the class is going to be tied to which skill tier you belong to. If you're casual, haven't tried to optimize your gameplay (or simply don't care because you don't find it fun) then current healers are going to be just fine. The first half of the cognitive flow chart for healers is normal. It's in the later half that it just strays right into "boring".

My point being - since I didn't want to repeat myself - I don't know anyone in game who uses the forums, and I've been playing since 2010, but I know plenty of people in game who are happy with their healers and don't find them boring. Myself included. Only one of those people is a raider these days ( he doesn't raid on a healer tho ) but many of us have raided in the past, so I wouldn't exactly describe any of us of casual. I do know people who have only recently started playing too, and they are having fun with healing. I'm not sure what your digression into customer satisfaction added to your argument: actually it more supports my inference that the forums are not an accurate reflection of how the largest section of healers in game feel about the role. Of course we are both most likely to play in and be part of a community that echoes our play styles, but I would imagine SE has a much more accurate breakdown of satisfaction than either of us and will act accordingly

If you frame your points in such a manner - basically you are saying that if you're not bored as a healer, you're a bad healer - I'm not surprised that you meet with negativity. I don't claim by any means to be a top tier player at any role, unlike yourself, but this is more because I'm old these days, I don't have the reaction speed or memory that I used to, and new fights take me longer to learn. But my experience is that my skill set - the average player who wants to do the best they can - is what makes up the biggest part of the player base; my experience in game certainly gives credence to that. So I imagine SE will be paying attention to what that section of the community thinks about healers in order to retain the most players in the role.

Again, I wanted to avoid repeating myself, but you clearly haven't read my other posts. Why is pressing 1,2,3 more engaging than pressing 1,1,1? Especially if 3 depends on you pressing 1 and then 2 and not having to interrupt to heal the melee who ignored the red marker on the ground because 'mah deeps'?

[Rasikko]

^That. The part about being a bad healer if youre not bored. Thats the kind of clashing I once got into with someone here. I personally feel healing is fine in both areas. Healing is balanced and there's plenty opportunities to DPS. I love gravity spam, and Malefic IV looks so cool. I just better not say any of that around here(oops).

[Halivel]

^That. The part about being a bad healer if youre not bored. Thats the kind of clashing I once got into with someone here. I personally feel healing is fine in both areas. Healing is balanced and there's plenty opportunities to DPS. I love gravity spam, and Malefic IV looks so cool. I just better not say any of that around here(oops).

I wrote that I like current AST more than I did in HW/SB in another thread yesterday. Weirdly I'm still not torn for this, but it's probably because the thread itself wasn't about healing in general.

[Seraphor]

I wrote that I like current AST more than I did in HW/SB in another thread yesterday. Weirdly I'm still not torn for this, but it's probably because the thread itself wasn't about healing in general.

Regardless of personal preference, I think AST is objectively better now than in Stormblood.
Imagine how that went down last July. It's the reason for my sig.

[GrimGale]

My point being - since I didn't want to repeat myself - I don't know anyone in game who uses the forums, and I've been playing since 2010, but I know plenty of people in game who are happy with their healers and don't find them boring. Myself included. Only one of those people is a raider these days ( he doesn't raid on a healer tho ) but many of us have raided in the past, so I wouldn't exactly describe any of us of casual. I do know people who have only recently started playing too, and they are having fun with healing.

Let me counter your anecdotal data with my own anecdotal data.

I'm in a static which has cleared both current savage tiers. My partner healer and myself are both burned out with our roles. I've talked to a few other statics and their healers seem to be in the very same situation, often describing the "one button spam" as the worse part of the role.


Again, we cannot know if this type of healing kit makes for interesting or fun gameplay. Fun is subjective after all.

What we do know is how much of a difference there is in the number of offensive spell casts and healing spell casts by simply looking at the logs.

If SE wanted to adjust healers to have them be "pure healers" wether it is to heal more or to focus on healing, it'd say they have failed. We cast almost three times more damage spells than healing spells. Which is why healers feel so repetitive.

[MirronTulaxia]

I do wonder how they could manage to make healing more important, as currently all they've done is simplified DPS which... isn't bad, but without the additional healing responsibility I can understand the issue. I'm not sure how the issue could be fixed, but I'm not really wanting to have healers get pushed to do more DPS, even if they could probably diversify the DPS thing a bit.