General Community Resistant to Healer Damage?

[JohnSpawnVFX]

I don't think anyone is asking to give healers actual combos. It's always been spamming an attack and keeping up more than one dot.

[Awha]

I don't think anyone is asking to give healers actual combos. It's always been spamming an attack and keeping up more than one dot.

I would like a mulit stage dps rotation for healers, though I am crazy since I also enjoyed old cleric stance.

[Granyala]

Makes sense, pretty much the same is true in WoW.
I guess you do breed impatience if you make your players farm the content until they are sick and tired of it.

[EaMett]

...

The issue with the "require more healing" route is that we already do have content that requires more healing. It's ultimate, and even that is a meager 20-30% healing. But it's already way beyond the reach of many.
In reality it's not the amount of healing required that needs to change but the damage distribution. You would need to spread damage in more random damage spikes as opposed to the choreographed encounters we currently have. The problem? SE are going the exact opposite with their design. They've removed critical hits from bosses, etc. etc.
This, like you've said, breads "lean" healing strategies where a good healer is measured by how little he can overheal and how much he can dps as a result.
You mentioned Sunwell earlier in the thread and that was kind of the opposite end of the spectrum. Promoted heavy healing where a good healer was measured by their ability to consistently overheal and not go OOM. Effective healing although important was relegated to the backseat since most healers were usually segregated to specific targets/groups. For those wondering, damage output was random, constant, and heavy. A lot could happen between the beginning of your cast and the end so keeping your heals rolling was a must, even on full health targets.

All this to say that there's got to be some middle ground but SE would need to change the way damage is dealt and alter mana management to go along with this. The main issue is that like other have mentioned. This means that the mana reworks for future (diff damage pattern) content would break past (current damage pattern) content and that will not slide so is unlikely to happen at all.

At this point everyone should realize that the dps meta we currently have is here to stay and healers should just get more diverse dps tools. That's all there is to it. SE can make a new MMO down the road with the lessons learned this time around.

[Deceptus]

In reality it's not the amount of healing required that needs to change but the damage distribution. You would need to spread damage in more random damage spikes as opposed to the choreographed encounters we currently have. The problem? SE are going the exact opposite with their design. They've removed critical hits from bosses, etc. etc.

I've played MMO's where random damage spikes were a thing and let me tell you, it's not fun. Never knowing when someone is going to be hit super hard based on RNG is stressful as hell. Predictability is important for both healers and tanks.

So can i apply that to Red Mages then? I will now expect them to cast Vercures on the regular so that they're "Efficiently" using their toolkit.

I expect Summoners to hardcast Raises and spam Physik too, because I'm busy "efficiently" using my toolkit.

If both healers are dead or one healer is dead and the other is struggling and if you have SMN or RDM in your party:

Then yes. I absolutely expect them to help out. It's a team game. Everyone is supposed to play to the best of their ability.

I would also like to point out that I've had dungeon runs be faster with a non-DPS Healer compared to subsequent runs where the Healer is near matching the Tank on DPS.
Healer DPS is negligible compared to whether or not the DPS are playing to the best of their ability.

This is just a factually untrue statement. Any extra damage makes runs faster if everyone is contributing.

They've said on multiple occasions that Healer dps isn't factored into clear requirements. I'm not even sure if they've ever confirmed outright that Savage requires Healers to DPS.

This is an old statement that they have since reverse course on. Healers are expected to do some damage now.

[Big_Oof]

I haven't been playing this game for long at all, but I have been maining WHM so I feel like I may have a few things to contribute to the conversation.

For me, the issue isn't about how many DPS buttons the job utilises. I could be satisfied with the two I use most of the time. The reason I'm not, is that it feels like the other 95% of my kit (you know, the healing part) never really (really) sees the light of day. Why does that trouble me, you might ask. Frankly, it's a matter of definition of the word "healer". In most other MMOs (that I've played), playing healer means you essentially juggle HP bars, and the game makes sure that's close to your full-time occupation. This game's definition of healer is different, and since this is the only game (again, to my experience) that employs such a definition, it's not unexpected for confusion to occur. The measure of how good a healer is in FFXIV seems to stem greatly from minimising the time spent actually healing. I'm not by any means implying people who enjoy this playstyle are wrong, it's just very different from what I am used to doing. Fyi, I've always gravitated towards support/healer classes no matter what MMO I play which, again, with the exception of this game, usually comes down to juggling HP bars.

So, when I say I'd be interested in playing something more akin to a "pure healer", I don't mean I want to throw a Cure I at the Tank's 90% HP and then go AFK for six seconds until I do it again. I do want to be busy. But I want to be busy healing. And not just in the top echelons of content, but mostly everywhere. Now I realise this is kind of a moot point, since regardless of what I want, that's not the kind of game this was designed to be. I'm slowly making my peace with that. There's other content I can enjoy since healing doesn't seem to be the iteration that I personally am attracted to. Neither do I expect the devs to suddenly revamp the gameplay to better suit me, considering this game already has a pretty established identity. To arbitrarily shift it in any major way would be a risky move, to say the least.

So, ultimately, the way I perceive this dichotomy in the healing community could be, largely, due to differing definitions of what the role is supposed to do. People who migrated from other games, like myself, could be looking for a type of gameplay that is not really supported here. On the other hand, people who have always played XIV or simply prefer its way of doing things, rightly see nothing wrong with how the healing is implemented and instead gravitate towards how the DPS aspect functions. I don't really see a solution that would magically fix this issue. Either what you're looking for is here, or it isn't and it's not ever going to be (barring any MAJOR encounter design shifts, which tbh I find improbable). It's up to each individual player to either come to terms with that, or not.

[TaleraRistain]

I'm not sure where everyone has time to get bored but I stay very active as a White Mage no matter how many buttons I have to press. I lived through us being the bottom of the barrel. I'm surviving us being top of the list now. I've been one since 2014 and I'm not going to change anytime soon. I still greatly enjoy supporting my team keeping health at good levels and helping whittle things down. I have very little interest in a cookie-cutter rotation. I love the unpredictable nature of healing. I'm not bored at all.

[NanaWiloh]

There are 2 forms of healing in this game.

1. Savage: Where everyone has brains and things get to a point healers can predict when healing is needed and be efficient.

Example: Big wide raid damage coming everyone at 45% better heal them up

2. Duty finder: A vast Malestorm of random players of varying in skill levels with no way to perdict when healing will be needed and be efficient.

Example: Big raid wide damage coming. EVERYONE LOSES THEIR minds. Co-healer keeps dpsing, Joe and john dps stand outside of healing range, Tank for whatever reason drops defensive stance, off tank pulls adds into the raid, Player who has been dead for the last 5 minutes finally takes the rez they were given 2 minutes eariler just to be killed by the AOE. Other healer trying to aoe heal everyone just to have them scattered like Cockroaches when the lights are turned on..

[MartaDemireux]

When it comes to healer DPS, I just want something to do when healing isn't needed. It doesn't necessarily need to be DPS, but it should be interesting. Placing 1 DoT and spamming 1 nuke isn't interesting to me, especially when there is so much time when healing isn't needed.

As I've said in other threads, I would like to see monumental changes to healers that makes the time not spent healing not only unique, but interesting. They should ideally all contribute similar rDPS but have play-styles that do it very differently from one another. Their actual healing capabilities should all be equal and similar in execution - the difference is mostly in what you're doing when you're (frequently) not healing. Then, if your healer is making the most of their kit, they will really shine - but if they're not, they won't be a total detriment to the group. I wouldn't suggest tuning all fights to include high healer DPS - high numbers are less important than engaging gameplay.

AST: Make it the healer that feels like a full support job.

• Make buffing with cards on the GCD and have it be better rDPS than casting Malefic.
• Put Play on the GCD, but keep Draw as an oGCD.
• Extend buff duration to allow for 1-2 Malefic casts between buffs in an 8 person party.
• Add Draw II that allows the pulling of defensively aligned cards.
• Add Divination II that allows converting seals into a defensively aligned party buff.
• Start adding charges to Essential Dignity at an earlier level to make up for more GCDs being used on buffing.
• Have drawing cards grant a chance to enhance Benefic's potency to Benefic 2's (while keeping its lower MP cost and cast time) to give more use of the spell and its accompanying Enhanced Benefic trait (which should activate 100% of the time when triggered from an enhanced Benefic).

Gameplay would shift so that when you aren't healing, you're drawing and playing cards until everyone is buffed. When everyone is buffed, then you can cast Malefic/Gravity. They should see some more oGCD healing usage than WHM, but not as much as SCH.

SCH: Make it the healer that feels like a tactical DPS debuffer.

• Give them three DoTs:
  Miasma: Has a cast time. Duration on target is replenished to max 30s when Bio is cast.
  Poison: Instant cast. Duration on target is replenished to max 30s when Bio is cast.
  Bio: Instant cast. Duration 30s, Recast 15s.
• Alter Broil and so that its potency is increased depending on how many DoTs are up. Reduce its cast time a bit to facilitate better weaving of oGCD heals.
• Don't have DoTs interact with Art of War, but instead add Bane to SCH and adjust AoW potency to compensate for this.
• DoT durations should be halved with each cast of Broil. "Burning" away the toxins, if you will.
• To make up for more GCD DPS casts, give more oGCD healing: primarily be given more fairy heals.
• Give all fairy heals instant recast times and instead have them all cost cost Fairy Gauge points.
• Let them accumulate Fairy Gauge even with Dissipation up.
• Seraph should be a direct buff to all fairy heals instead of providing 1 ability.

Gameplay would shift to more GCDs spent casting DoTs/DPS spells. The basic "rotation" would see you cast Miasma > Poison > Bio (refreshes other DoTs so all have 30s) > Broil (DoTs have ~13s) > Broil (DoTs have ~5s) > Broil (DoTs start to fall off). If you're required to hardcast a heal or use Ruin II during movement, you're still generating DPS with your DoTs - if movement or healing requirements are very high, the DoTs are refreshed with Bio for static DPS. Ideally, though, much of their healing will come in the form of Aetherflow charges and the fairy abilities.

WHM: Make/keep it the healer whose DPS and healing capabilities are dependent upon each other.

• Capitalize on the Afflatus Misery/Blood Lily system. Your damage dealing capabilities should be in direct relation to your healing capabilities, and your damage dealing should enhance your healing capability.
• Have Cure/Cure II/Cure III/Medica/Medica II/Glare/Holy contribute toward Lily generation by reducing the time by maybe 5s-10s per hardcast.
• Add Afflatus Affliction: Deals more damage than Glare but less than Afflatus Misery. Has 3 maximum charges that refill one at a time after every lily-consuming ability.
• Add an HP shield to the list of Lily consuming abilities.
• Add a Lily consumer on perhaps a 1 minute timer that increases the rate at which your next lily is gained to prevent over-healing and allow triggering of Afflatus Misery/Affliction.
• Afflatus Misery/Affliction should have a chance to enhance your next Cure 1 cast to have Cure 2 potency (while keeping its lower MP cost and cast time) to give more use of the spell and its accompanying Freecure trait (which should activate 100% of the time when triggered from an enhanced Cure).

Gameplay would stay much the same as it currently is with a slight shift to more Lily interaction. Glare should only be used when Lilies aren't available, and also becomes a tool to increase the rate they are generated when healing isn't needed. HP shields and a Lily consumer allow for the use of Lilies without the detriment of capping at 3 and contribute to Afflatus Affliction use. This would remain the healer of choice for those that want big bursts of healing and big bursts of damage (within healer reason). It would have a very yin-yang feel. Your DPS/healing casts gives you more chances to use Lilies, which give you more chances to heal/shield, which gives you more chance to use Afflatus Affliction/Misery.

[Seraphor]

SCH: Make it the healer that feels like a tactical DPS debuffer.[LIST][*]Give them three DoTs:
Miasma: Has a cast time. Duration on target is replenished to max 30s when Bio is cast.
Poison: Instant cast. Duration on target is replenished to max 30s when Bio is cast.
Bio: Instant cast. Duration 30s, Recast 15s.[*]Alter Broil and so that its potency is increased depending on how many DoTs are up. Reduce its cast time a bit to facilitate better weaving of oGCD heals.[*]Don't have DoTs interact with Art of War, but instead add Bane to SCH and adjust AoW potency to compensate for this.

Oh my god please no.
SCH was already bad enough having to set up your AoE attacks with several GCD's, now it'd take 4 skills to spread your full AoE damage around, compared to 1 with AST/WHM.
Meanwhile DoTs have been nerfed on SMN for being too OP. You could deal consistent damage for 30s with just 3 GCD's compared to other healers who need 10 GCD's for the same effect.

DoT management is hell. There are plenty of ways to inject interesting gameplay mechanics without needing stacks and stacks of DoTs.

SCH already has 2 main dps skills where the others only have 1 (Broil and Ruin) without adding 3! more DoT skills.
Make the interplay between Broil and Ruin more interesting. Give us a reason to use Ruin outside of oGCD clipping optimisation.

The only thing I kinda like here is Broil cutting DoT time, and frankly I think this could be something for all healers as a way to effectively nerf DoTs while increasing their base potency so that they're more impactful.