Monk rework thoughts

[SpeckledBurd]

Just going down the line.

GL 4 being a trait and stance independent is fine and better than it's current implementation.

The Fist changes still doesn't solve the basic problem with the fist stances that have existed forever. There's still going to be one dominant stance that deals the most damage. Plus not being able to change stances mid fight takes away Monk's unique defensive option and it's ability to mitigate damage from lost stacks. Earth stance will now be more useless than ever because we won't even be able to switch into it for spot saves, we'll only ever want to use Fire or Wind based on which is optimal for damage.

The form changes don't solve many of the inherent problems that exist. Leaden Fist/current Dragon Kick keeps there being a single disproportionate positional, Raptor Form skills granting a Chakra is an improvement on pure RNG but you've kept Deep Meditation 1 which should be scrapped entirely.

Anatman as a utility Cooldown at 6 minutes is absurd especially when it's interruptible by needing to move.

Tornado Kick is an improvement I've suggested in the past so I don't mind it.

Six Sided Star's new effect means we'd be using it basically every 10-12 seconds, which really removes the impact that the skill should have.

Form Shift would be a fine thing to implement now, it would functionally just make Monk less spammy in downtime.

The Mantra effect, by tying party offensive buffs to Healing/Support utility ensures that the support utility will never be used. The Fists of Wind effect being a haste to other party members will annoy people who rely on rigid GCD strings for buff alignment such as Samurai and Dragoon. The Earth effect will be useless because Earth will no longer be used. This basically makes Mantra less useful as party support in exchange for an unnecessary extra input for our Burst window.

Brotherhood along with the previously mentioned problem, doesn't solve the issues with Composition dependency and the RNG ensuring that the skill basically is never satisfying to use. You'll still either whiff or inevitably experience periods of Chakra overflow due to the nature of the gauge.

Tl;dr: There's some decent ideas in there but broadly this causes more problems than it fixes.

[hballamco]

The Fist changes still doesn't solve the basic problem with the fist stances that have existed forever. There's still going to be one dominant stance that deals the most damage. Plus not being able to change stances mid fight takes away Monk's unique defensive option and it's ability to mitigate damage from lost stacks. Earth stance will now be more useless than ever because we won't even be able to switch into it for spot saves, we'll only ever want to use Fire or Wind based on which is optimal for damage.

Fists of Earth doesn't just give 10% reduced damage but ignores positional requirements with reduced positional bonuses as I mentioned. So, it might be competing with FoF and FoW in terms of dps output. Also, I mentioned an adjustment to Riddle of Earth ability which will grant other Fists bonuses, so changing between Fists might be neglected.

The form changes don't solve many of the inherent problems that exist. Leaden Fist/current Dragon Kick keeps there being a single disproportionate positional, Raptor Form skills granting a Chakra is an improvement on pure RNG but you've kept Deep Meditation 1 which should be scrapped entirely.

I thought that by just removing Deep Meditation II and reducing FC potency is enough to balance it with the new raptor bonus.

Anatman as a utility Cooldown at 6 minutes is absurd especially when it's interruptible by needing to move.

Anatman currently is rarely used during boss fights except in opener and between phases, so I don't think it is too much when you count the rewards (after 3 seconds, you are ready to punch!). Also, since i fixed Form Shift, you really don't need Anatman for GL timer reset. But yeah, I think reducing recast time would be better. btw, 300 sec. = 5 minutes XD

Six Sided Star's new effect means we'd be using it basically every 10-12 seconds, which really removes the impact that the skill should have.

The skill as of now is trash imo. Level 80 ability which ruins your rotation flow is not a good ability for monk even if you use it before boss leaves, the dps gain from this ability is almost nothing. That is why I thought about rebuilding it.

The Mantra effect, by tying party offensive buffs to Healing/Support utility ensures that the support utility will never be used. The Fists of Wind effect being a haste to other party members will annoy people who rely on rigid GCD strings for buff alignment such as Samurai and Dragoon. The Earth effect will be useless because Earth will no longer be used. This basically makes Mantra less useful as party support in exchange for an unnecessary extra input for our Burst window.

That's a good point. Maybe leaving Mantra as it is as well as Brotherhood except changing Brotherhood effect from physical damage to all damage types.

Thanks for your reply

[SpeckledBurd]

Fists of Earth doesn't just give 10% reduced damage but ignores positional requirements with reduced positional bonuses as I mentioned. So, it might be competing with FoF and FoW in terms of dps output. Also, I mentioned an adjustment to Riddle of Earth ability which will grant other Fists bonuses, so changing between Fists might be neglected.

It wouldn't at all, positionals aren't so difficult that people miss them even 50% of the time in even the most difficult content, and the goal of DPS maximization will ultimately land you in FoF or FoW.

I'd also say asking for changes to the Fist Stances is pointless and they should just be turned into traits. People have asked for the Fist Stances to have new traits or effects for two expansions and all we've gotten is brilliant traits like 4.0 Tackle Mastery, Enhanced Riddle of Fire, and GL4 tied to Fists of Wind. Maybe we'd get an interesting new trait that allows for some feeling of advancement if the devs focused on an aspect of the job they demonstrably can't make into anything but button bloat.

I thought that by just removing Deep Meditation II and reducing FC potency is enough to balance it with the new raptor bonus.

The problem with the RNG isn't balance or even ouput, it's the existence of the RNG itself. The Monk playerbase has been dissatisfied with the RNG aspects since they were introduced in stormblood, it's incredibly unsatisfying on most jobs that employ it in my opinion. Raptor Form Chakras allows for consistent output which is good, and that alone is better than RNG on its own, or even coupled with RNG.

Anatman currently is rarely used during boss fights except in opener and between phases, so I don't think it is too much when you count the rewards (after 3 seconds, you are ready to punch!). Also, since i fixed Form Shift, you really don't need Anatman for GL timer reset. But yeah, I think reducing recast time would be better. btw, 300 sec. = 5 minutes XD

Yes, and 5 minutes is substantially too long. If you want Anatman to be good for recovery it has to be actually be available for use, at a 5 minute timer it's actually worse than Perfect Balances original 4 minute timer in that regard. Having to channel it also just makes it worse than Blood of the Dragon or Enochian which are just buttons for granting a buff identical in purpose to GL.

Plus if Tornado Kick no longer burns stacks then a powerful recovery skill doesn't automatically introduce excess potency.