What do you guys think is the cause of severe lack of Tank users?

[ReiMakoto]

Dunno why people still try highlight this as if it was something good, Aggro combos sucked hard, they were terribly implemented and disrupted the flow of rotations. EVERY tank actively looked to avoid using their respective aggro combo, especially paladin who took the biggest loss by a large margin compared to the other tanks as it forced it's rotation out of raid buffs. WAR saw the ability to circumvent any use of Butcher's Block combo thanks to utilising unchained, equilibrium and the stupid amount of burst from IR. DRK suffered a loss of mana and blood gauge, but initial potency remained the same on the aggro combo as it did on the Souleater combo, iirc.

DRK did suffer a loss of mana regen, however it was in the unique position where it didnt even need tank stance to draw its aggro. This is cos after the buffs towards the middle of SB their aggro combo finisher not only got upgraded so when dark arts it would do the same damage as a dark arts soul eater (meaning you only lost 20 potency across the whole combo discounting the mana gained from syphon) but the DA version of power slash had a ridiculously high aggro modifier, basically double that of the other tanks aggro combo finisher, on top of dealing more damage, and cos it wasnt crazy enough it had a built in "flash" effect generating even more aggro. On top of that DRK had a crazy high aggro mod on Dark Passenger as well which was dps nuetral if you had a smn in your party. This made aggro on drk even more braindead than most other classes as you didnt even need to touch your tank stance to generate a shit load of aggro, which is even more of a reason why aggro needed to be ditched, the entire mechanic existed for your opener or add spawns/aggro resets, and it wasn't even engaging. Bringing back aggro managment on tanks is a mistake.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

DRK did suffer a loss of mana regen, however it was in the unique position where it didnt even need tank stance to draw its aggro. This is cos after the buffs towards the middle of SB their aggro combo finished not only got upgraded so when dark arts it would do the same damage as a dark arts soul eater (meaning you only lost 20 potency across the whole combo discounting the mana gained from syphon) but the DA version of power slash had a ridiculously high aggro modifier, basically double that of the other tanks aggro combo finisher, on top of dealing more damage, and cos it wasnt crazy enough it had a built in "flash" effect generating even more aggro. On top of that DRK had a crazy high aggro mod on Dark Passenger as well which was dps nuetral if you had a smn in your party. This made aggro on drk even more braindead than most other classes as you didnt even need to touch your tank stance to generate a shit load of aggro, which is even more of a reason why aggro needed to be ditched, the entire mechanic existed for your opener or add spawns/aggro resets, and it wasn't even engaging. Bringing back aggro managment on tanks is a mistake.

I remember the buffs to DRK aggro management, but I rarely played DRK outside levelling it, just never been a fan of the job on the whole, personally. Because of this, I only touched on what I do recall for a fact, omitting the minor details that I couldn't recall, and yes, Dark Arts boosted Power Slash was insane amounts of aggro generation.

Like you, I don't really see the need to bring back aggro management, it was never remotely engaging. You pulled boss in stance, WAR did it's thing, other two did one aggro combo, dps stance rest of the fight, with the odd voke and shirk if the fight allowed it. With everything taken away from tanks, with little to no return, I would like more heavily focused tank mechanics be added to fights, (not run to the side of a wall to bait fire tornados just because...why not...), but since they have had two-thirds of a raid series to address this and failed miserably, I would rather tanks get a slightly bigger piece of the damage pie to compensate for the lacking on the dev teams part for neglecting tanks, outside of minor defensive buffs made to WAR and QoL to Reprisal. Further, I find it difficult to see them adding decent tank mechanics into savage next tier either at this rate; it's only been TEA so far that I've actually had any fun with tank aspects.

Once engaging tank mechanics have been incorporated into fight designs, then revise whether tanks should take a DPS cut or not, but after playing tanks for 5 years it's getting pretty sad putting in so much efforts to optimise rotations and get so little out of it in return.

[MerlinCross]

Honestly to argue they should have kept combos, that were actively and adamantly avoided to quite extreme levels kinda stands to reason they should not be kept which I agree with SE decision in their removal, only adds to button bloat for some of the tanks, and keeping them would have prevented the rotation that we have for GNB, or prevented devs fleshing out AoE a bit more for tanks. The only people I've seen use Aggro combos en masse are the idiots that insisted on OT followed up with spamming aggro combo and not having a clue at level cap what they are doing, thus punishing tanks that wanted to avail of tanking in dps stance. It was more whatever if they were actually holding aggro as it didn't impact the other tank.

Yes because that's what tanks needed, that was the problem that no one played tanks over; not fleshed out AoE. Espically for WAR and DRK, Eyup that was the problem.

Also if we're talking bloat, Clemancy is still a thing and I've seen people get more mad about that than over the aggro combos, but hey.

Bring back Aggro, make it better/harder. Completely killing it limits design space as right now it's all "Target Tanks" not "Second in Aggro". Heck it should be easier to do with the purge of Aggro skills on other classes. At the very least bring back Butcher's Block, it's far more impactful to see than Storm's Path(What is this, some weak thrust on an axe, no!).

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Yes because that's what tanks needed, that was the problem that no one played tanks over; not fleshed out AoE. Espically for WAR and DRK, Eyup that was the problem.

Also if we're talking bloat, Clemancy is still a thing and I've seen people get more mad about that than over the aggro combos, but hey.

Bring back Aggro, make it better/harder. Completely killing it limits design space as right now it's all "Target Tanks" not "Second in Aggro". Heck it should be easier to do with the purge of Aggro skills on other classes. At the very least bring back Butcher's Block, it's far more impactful to see than Storm's Path(What is this, some weak thrust on an axe, no!).

I mean I've used my AoE combos a damn sight more now than I have ever used aggro combos back in SB, so tossing aggro combos, not used, aside for AoE combos I do use, means better button economy so think you lost on that one mate.

Yea so clearly you are completely oblivious to why I personally as well as others complain about paladins using Clemency. So you do not spam Clemency like a pleb because you chicken S*** scared that a healer has let you drop to 90% hp, when healers oGCDs can heal anywhere from 20% of your hp to max. So 9 times out of 10, it's wasted GCDs, when you should only use Clemency if your healer(s) are dead, for progging new fights and trying to advance in a new fight, and solo-ing content, otherwise it's wasted resource.

So what you are telling me is, with bringing back aggro combos, you want to kill every last bit of flow that remains in tank design and butcher it with crappy combos nobody liked to use and actively want to avoid like the plague, in a game that encourages DPS the only measure of progress in this game that has any merit whatsoever simply because you have a weird outdated view of tanks where they should deal 0 damage and feel completely more s*** than they do now, as a tank main for 5 years I rather give that a pass.

If you actually bothered to do any savage, and not casual content, there is mechanics that are based on first and second aggro, but these kinda of mechanics do not make an appearance in normal/ hard mode fights.

[Shurrikhan]

Haven't they taken away enough from us yet...? Damage, self sustain, engaging gameplay. We're still waiting to be given something in return.

Then why not simply siphon from the things that have been given despite having not been asked for, and which arguably make the gameplay less engaging for their inclusion, such as "so much enmity no one could possibly lose it without afking" and "250% the eHP of non-tanks... passively"?

The more these things are to be considered free and irrelevant to balance, the less we can expect to see actual tanking mechanics, as they would otherwise end up making use of those advantages and show just how powerful those passive bonuses could be if we actually had tanking gameplay beyond "Hit for at least a tenth the damage of your lead dps, and press your blue button when prompted."

[VictorTheed]

From my own personal experience in FFXIV from arr 2013 to now, imo healer was the hardest to role to play, tanking 2nd hardest and dps easiest.

[VictorTheed]

Tank is the highest responsibility job and I wouldn't recommend it to people as a first class to play.

They lead the way through the dungeon, and everyone else just has to follow them.

I agree, I always tell newcomers to play a dps 1st then do tank or heals for their 2nd job.

[Shurrikhan]

I mean I've used my AoE combos a damn sight more now than I have ever used aggro combos back in SB, so tossing aggro combos, not used, aside for AoE combos I do use, means better button economy so think you lost on that one mate.

While I agree with your point on enmity combos, how does turning AoEs from mod-1 actions into mod-2 actions make for better economy, let alone more flow? All that's accomplished is to lock the major benefits of your AoEs behind a GCD of ramp-up and to remove the ability for PLDs or DRKs to grab AoE threat w/o breaking their ST combos.

I'd much sooner take back diversity in AoE choices (such as between the heal of Steel Cyclone vs. the pure damage of Decimate, the damage of AD vs. the lack of combo break on UL, or the mitigation and lack of combo break on Flash vs. the damage of TE) over this A-B-A-B-A-B bloat we have now.

By all means, if enmity was all the other combos would accomplish and matters of enmity itself were to remain as easily compensated for by just boosting our damage stats, let's be rid of them. But let's not pretend that substituting one failing for another makes the second any less a failing. Enmity combos were bloat. The AoE combos we have now are likewise bloat.

[MerlinCross]

I mean I've used my AoE combos a damn sight more now than I have ever used aggro combos back in SB, so tossing aggro combos, not used, aside for AoE combos I do use, means better button economy so think you lost on that one mate.

Yea so clearly you are completely oblivious to why I personally as well as others complain about paladins using Clemency. So you do not spam Clemency like a pleb because you chicken S*** scared that a healer has let you drop to 90% hp, when healers oGCDs can heal anywhere from 20% of your hp to max. So 9 times out of 10, it's wasted GCDs, when you should only use Clemency if your healer(s) are dead, for progging new fights and trying to advance in a new fight, and solo-ing content, otherwise it's wasted resource.

So what you are telling me is, with bringing back aggro combos, you want to kill every last bit of flow that remains in tank design and butcher it with crappy combos nobody liked to use and actively want to avoid like the plague, in a game that encourages DPS the only measure of progress in this game that has any merit whatsoever simply because you have a weird outdated view of tanks where they should deal 0 damage and feel completely more s*** than they do now, as a tank main for 5 years I rather give that a pass.

If you actually bothered to do any savage, and not casual content, there is mechanics that are based on first and second aggro, but these kinda of mechanics do not make an appearance in normal/ hard mode fights.

Would have been better button eco if they just put the damage into your first AoE skill. I'm one person but Ninja didn't become suddenly far more fun when they gave us a new AoE attack(It was nice that it and SAM got to upkeep buffs that way but I believe that change came later).

You complain about Clemancy but also complain about any suggestions of removing it. Pick one. I'm not saying Clemancy needs to be spammed but when a skill seems to have a 90% chance of getting someone mad at you, that isn't Rescue, something wrong here and we can't change the community so losing the skill seems better.

Yes, I'm saying bring back Aggro. I did not say Aggro COMBOS, but the mechanic. What flow is there in tank design right now other than "Sit there and push your go ham button when Up"? Yes the game gives you DPS as the only measurement, Fix that and bring Aggro back to help. Simply putting it back it does nothing. I'm not the only one that has 'weird outdated view' on tanks it seems. People here want them to be DPS but freak out at the idea of axing the holy trinity they want to hide behind. I've played just as long as you have and I want my tanks to feel different from my DPS, otherwise what's the point? And hint, being able to eat a tank buster isn't a big enough difference between the two.

Please, show me these mechanics that target second aggro and not merely "Tanks" or "MT and OT" or "MT and anyone that should be near them" or "A tank needs to take this". I don't do savage, you got me there but I have an interest in TRYING them, learning them, and I have friends that do them so I'm not 100% blind like you think I am. If these mechanics are everywhere and Savage/EX it shouldn't be hard to come up with one that will hit the second in aggro. Basically, I'd like a mechanic where the OT has to make sure to be Second in threat, cause I looked around and asked but I couldn't get a clear answer. Heck, the only one I could find was in E7s with the Adds targeting "Second in Aggro" with their AoEs but Melee seem to be just as easily targeted so I'm getting mixed info.

I mean I like E5S where the OT has to have the most Static charges to draw the add, that feels like doing something. And most the time, I'm not feeling like I'm doing anything, even on EX/Savage. Well, nothing that I wouldn't be expected to dance out of the way as DPS.

Here's a thought for why some people don't play tanks anymore. We got bitter about seeing our role get beaten down and rather than fixed or reworked the demands are "Damage only", meanwhile the devs just want to see how much of a target dummy they can get away with making us.

What on earth is a Tank these days?

[HazedRuin]

Well I'm not sure about the technical difficulties of being a tank, but my sister decided to be a Marauder (which as I understand it is a soft tank). She just left a dungeon half way through because her team stopped trying and just started emote dancing around..... I did tell her to check Utube for some vids on being a good Marauder. But needless to say her team was dumb.
She is a new player to FF14, and I have only ever played DPS so...I will play the dungeon with her next time and DPS through it.