Predictions for 5.3?

[EdwinLi]

Also, I am holding out on the admittedly dim prospect that Minfilia will return before Shadowbringers runs its course, if only because I miss her dearly of her promise to do so in her last Heavensward appearance. Don't get me wrong: Shadowbringers has handled Minfilia's death so well that it'd be a shame to roll it back a second/third time. But even so, it's not necessarily a permanent retirement for her character. That said, I'd be very unhappy if bringing her back meant killing off Ryne.

Doubt Ryne will die if Minfilia returns. As Minfilia said herself, she was basically a Ascian taking over children's bodies to achieve her own goals which is why she accepted her own death. If anything, if Minfilia return it most likely maybe by giving her a body she can call her own once again that does not require sacrificing another soul to take over it.

[Mansion]

It doesn't matter how "some stories with similar plots" have done it because that is not how the Sundering works.

[...]
It's not happening.

And if it is happening despite all that, I will be cross.

I share the opinion that, because of gameplay, the Sundering can't happen. They can't cut off the First, and they can't make a past dimension bubble, that's be ridiculous in FFXIV that is so rigid with its timeline and time-bubble.

However, given how the loss of the Thirteenth is both inconsequential and not preferable for the wake of Zodiark... I've started wondering if Elidibus is not trying to come up with a big plan to somehow overpass the Sundering as we understand it get to his goal. Perhaps taking down Hydealyn herself... I don't know, but something that would not involve Calamities and rejoining the Shards.
Becaue the other way around is not satisfactory; if we kill Elidibus and all Ascians, Zodiark is still there somehow. Sealed away, but here. And we know how it never goes well in most stories to have the bigbadboi just "locked away".

[KageTokage]

I had a hard time imagining that the next dungeon would be strictly us and the Scions vs. Elidibus and his mob of misguided WoL wannabes, but if he intends to pull the same stunt he did at the Crystarium at other populated parts of Norvrandt, he could end up with more then a handful of additional overzealous followers.

I do think exposing the truth of the Source and the shards is going to play into him turning people against us, too.

[Vulcwen]

I had a hard time imagining that the next dungeon would be strictly us and the Scions vs. Elidibus and his mob of misguided WoL wannabes, but if he intends to pull the same stunt he did at the Crystarium at other populated parts of Norvrandt, he could end up with more then a handful of additional overzealous followers.

I do think exposing the truth of the Source and the shards is going to play into him turning people against us, too.

Considering the new dungeon is apparently going to be around the border of Lakeland and Il Mheg, maybe those new WoLs are getting directed towards the fae. That'd end up being a rather awkward situation.

[RyuDragnier]

I had a hard time imagining that the next dungeon would be strictly us and the Scions vs. Elidibus and his mob of misguided WoL wannabes, but if he intends to pull the same stunt he did at the Crystarium at other populated parts of Norvrandt, he could end up with more then a handful of additional overzealous followers.

I do think exposing the truth of the Source and the shards is going to play into him turning people against us, too.

Perhaps however, with the people we've helped so far (Crystalline Mean, Role Quests, Beast Tribes, Custom Deliveries, Seto, etc) immediately coming in and going "That's a load of bullocks!" It'd be a nod to those who refused to sully the names of the WoLs of the First in the past, and would be a good way to derail Elidibus' plan. Bonus points if the dungeon is akin to Ghimlyt Dark, with our allies helping us clear the way.

[EdwinLi]

Perhaps however, with the people we've helped so far (Crystalline Mean, Role Quests, Beast Tribes, Custom Deliveries, Seto, etc) immediately coming in and going "That's a load of bullocks!" It'd be a nod to those who refused to sully the names of the WoLs of the First in the past, and would be a good way to derail Elidibus' plan. Bonus points if the dungeon is akin to Ghimlyt Dark, with our allies helping us clear the way.

If it does then it will be interesting if they have the cutscene options and who appears based on what we have completed.

The cutscene in 3.2 where we get to choose who we meet in our room is a nice touch and opens up ideas to maybe have future MSQ, side storylines, and Job Role Quests have multiple possible outcomes and/or choose a ally based on what side storylines the player has completed.

Considering 6.0 storyline is going to be back in the Source again, I hope they also take this route for the new Job Role quest but it being based on progress with our class/Job storylines.

[rainichan]

Doubt Ryne will die if Minfilia returns. As Minfilia said herself, she was basically a Ascian taking over children's bodies to achieve her own goals which is why she accepted her own death. If anything, if Minfilia return it most likely maybe by giving her a body she can call her own once again that does not require sacrificing another soul to take over it.

Coming out of my lurk because I had a thought on this: what if Minfilia was Venat? Or her "shade" or whatever you want to call the form she chose despite being the heart of Hydaelyn?

"But raini," I can hear, "why would she have no knowledge of it?" Because Hydaelyn has been weakened. That weakness caused Ascilla's memories to be walled off of who she was, and iirc she had the Echo. Her line about how she felt like an Ascian makes me wonder if she knew that something was weird with her, something more than just being the Word of the Mother, a voice for Hydaelyn.

[Riastrad]

Coming out of my lurk because I had a thought on this: what if Minfilia was Venat? Or her "shade" or whatever you want to call the form she chose despite being the heart of Hydaelyn?

"But raini," I can hear, "why would she have no knowledge of it?" Because Hydaelyn has been weakened. That weakness caused Ascilla's memories to be walled off of who she was, and iirc she had the Echo. Her line about how she felt like an Ascian makes me wonder if she knew that something was weird with her, something more than just being the Word of the Mother, a voice for Hydaelyn.

I actually believe this is the case. I made a post in another thread and was told it was a fairly common assumption at this point. Also, I am 110% behind Minfilia returning at some point. Thancred and Ascilia were my introduction into this game in 1.0. She made a promise to return as we always had. I never came back as jewelry.

So hear me out.

We are the defector. We are the fourteenth. We are not Venat. Minfilia/Ryne is. Venat's supporters may just well be the Scions as they were during the time of the Ancients. (The Conversation between Venat and the "Diplomatic" Ancient one reminds me of the conversation between Minfilia and Thancred during the flash back when he took Ryne (then still Minfilia) to the location where the flood was halted.) Venat even places her hand on her chest when speaking. Much like how Minfilia and Ryne do often throughout the story. Yes, I know that last part sounds like a stretch, but stay with me.

During the cutscene after Anyder, Venat and her followers express regret that the Fourteenth left all attempts of communication unanswered. We (The Defector) are Hydaelyn's chosen champion because that is what Venat wanted the Fourteenth to be. As we could not be reached it fell to her to attempt the summoning of Hydaelyn and becoming the Heart. Venat mentions that after doing so that "I shall not vanish from this world. The form I take shall ever remain my choice."

As the Word of the Mother (Hydaelyn calls her a "beloved daughter"), Minfilia retained her image and after parting to the First took the form of flaxen haired, blue eyed girls to forestall the Flood of Light. It would explain why Hydaelyn seemed to have such a close connection to single out Minfilia and Ryne so often and make them Her Oracles of Light. Who better to see your vision to its purpose than yourself?



Select lyrics to "Return to Oblivion" courtesy of the Dev Blog.

Turn the light on
And let her in. Won't you
Turn the light on
Turn the light on
You'll never win 'less you
Turn the light on
Turn the light on
The pain won't end 'till you
Turn the light on
The soul longs for oblivion, oblivion

Falling too far for the fear to embrace me
A voice from the past screaming there is no end (no)
A slave to my fate, ever doomed to repeat this
again and again and again and again (yeah, I'm)

Falling too fast, but the fall will not break me
A voice from the past echoes loud like a drum (oh, yes)
no more goodbyes, I am tired of waiting
Now open my eyes, one last time, Here I come (yeah I come)

Now the bit about the other Ancients probably being the Scions may seem odd and is probably wrong. It is mentioned that before every calamity heroes (plural) rise up to warn and save the people. I think it fits.

Edit: A bit of extra theory-crafting.

Dark Knight 80 quest quote.

"Now comes your part
To cloak yourself in the fiction
To breathe life into the dead
To give a voice to the voiceless..."

O hero of rebirth traversing,♪ Soar you the azure skies.♪ Upon your breast a crimson crest,♪ Shine Light down from on high.♪

O hero of rebirth transcending,♪ Weave you an azure lie.♪ By your deeds doth crimson bleed,♪ And Darkness quench the fire.♪

O hero of rebirth traversing,♪ Heal you this scarred land.♪ Lay bare cloistered truths and tame the skies,♪ Let azure guide your hand.♪

O hero of rebirth traversing,♪ Break you the tyrants' bonds.♪ Embrace your sin and chase the light,♪ To darkness a world will dawn.♪

[Lauront]

I still think Elidibus haste to remove us maybe involving the effect of Sundering. The story seem to been showing the Ascians in a hasty state currently as if there is another effect for the sundering only they know about that may make rejoining impossible once a certain amount of time passes.

A good effect will be if the lesser shards are preserved as separate worlds permanently but a bad effect maybe that the lesser shards all disappear from existence.

Though if the effect is that the lesser shards will disappear from existence (thus killing everyone on all lesser shards) it would provide a strong motivation for the new Warriors of Light on the first to push towards rejoining their world as the only way to save everyone on the First in a certain point of view.

It's possible that they're rushing before some critical juncture is reached, I suppose. It'd jive with Lahabrea's lines in the Praetorium, that they're labouring against some kind of clock before what he describes there happens.

I think something a lot of people are missing is -

Whatever caused the Final Days was, to the best of our knowledge, terrestrial. The starshower heralding the Final Days was just a symptom of the Sound, not the source of the issue itself (a la Jenova or (to my knowledge) Lavos). The real issue came from within the planet itself - or, perhaps, the aetherial sea.

Aside from the commentary of the various Amaurotine shades explaining the Final Days, the final boss of the Amaurot dungeon (Therion) bears the title "Chthonic Riddle." The word "chthonic" literally translates to "subterranean" from ancient Greek, but in contemporary usage refers to deities and spirits of the Underworld. Considering the Ancients referred to the aetherial sea / lifestream as the "underworld"... you can put two and two together.

My train of thought may turn out to be wrong (it has been before), but whatever actually happened, I doubt it's something so simple as a hibernating malign alien that crashed on the planet millennia ago suddenly acting up.

Regardless, we're unlikely to get answers for that specific event for a long while; 5.3 is the culmination of Elidibus' hastily cobbled together plot to be rid of us, so he's liable to be front and center. I'd not expect to see the issue addressed until 5.4, at the earliest.

It also depends on where the Lifestream/Underworld "connected" to the world. I am going to bet it is through the Aetherial Sea at some juncture, meaning the name isn't just an arbitrary choice by the Ancients given that it's accessible underground. My thinking for a while now has been that they were throwing a hint at something going awry with the Underworld with Emet-Selch's short story. That, though, does not rule out the possibility of a parasite or some other entity entering through the Underworld itself and via the Aetherial Sea, into the planet, provoking chaos once it did. It'd also provide it a potential exit route so as to avoid the Sundering and for it to return later. The precipitating sound, as you say, had a subterranean origin, so it may all be connected.

My assumption was always that the cause of the Ancients' calamity was them straining the planet too much. Yes they had much more aether than sundered souls do, but they used creation magic for absolutely everything. Eventually that was going to cause something to break.

Possible, but I hope not. I'd find that to be the dullest approach they could take to the story. I was already on the fence about it in 7, but that also had the whole Jenova thing, which compensated it for me. Also relies on many assumptions on whether the planet has some finite load they had surpassed, which I find dubious without further evidence. They were certainly able to build a very large civilisation of it that, by the sounds of it, had lasted many, many thousands of years.

It will greatly depend on how it happens.

The combining of two worlds differs based on the plot's choice of effect.

They could easily do it the way you suggested and just handwave any problems through the lore they use to address it. In the end, the goal of the Rejoining is to restore the aether and the souls on the world to the Source. Selectively cutting off part of the world, pasting it onto some empty area of the Source and then draining the aether in the rest of it seem perfectly feasible to me... whether or not that means the stuff in Eden is ultimately to no avail. For now I am just taking that as the totally platonic Gaia and Ryne friendship show, with a side dish of here's how to do these Primal summonings properly. None of which really requires it all to work longer term.

Either way, it looks like Elidibus is angling for the 13th and 1st to be rejoined simultaneously, perhaps with the expectation that the darkness and light will cancel each other's effect on the aether out, rendering it suitable for use.

[ClaireFaye]

This here is an idea I just had...

if I were a seemingly powerful ancient being who's chosen mission is to destroy life as everyone knew it and return it to the way it once was... seemingly no end of tools and supplies at my disposal but almost on my own...? Well, the first thing that I would do is recruit more like-minded individuals. Not everyone is the shattered soul of an Ascian after all, but having the echo is supposed to be a clear sign.

So, maybe he had the Echo awakened in people so that he can see which souls he should be paying attention too and then focus on them. I mean, if you think about it, if that is what he's doing, he's not lying about 'saving the world' and all that because in his mind he is saving this world. Not only that, but apart from Lahabrea and Emet-Selch, the other Ascians were all 'incomplete' and therefore the rest of their sundered souls are still out there, right? Sure they won't be the same people we've fought before, but I can see them coming back.