Page 12 of 32 FirstFirst ... 2 10 11 12 13 14 22 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 313
  1. #111
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,887
    Character
    Edwin Li
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    It will be a bit interesting if they gone a bit beyond just classic FF game Jobs.

    For example, maybe Grandshelt Knight Job that is a Melee DPS so we can have LB3 be Crimson Nova



    Limit Break
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SAtYT_yWrw
    (2)
    Last edited by EdwinLi; 04-29-2020 at 11:27 AM.

  2. #112
    Player
    Barraind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    1,113
    Character
    Barraind Faylestar
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by CazzT View Post
    Disciple of Kaine from Warhammer Online is one of the best examples of how it would work. Or rather, the concept of how the class was supposed to work.
    In short, the more DPS you do, the more HPS you're producing. It would be a hybrid role.
    Were sadly probably never going to see a Shaman / Archmage / Warpriest / DoK style healer in 14, because 14 has no idea how to handle any kind of hybrid role outside 1 or 2 buttons.

    White Mage has the closest thing we'll get from those, with its lily -> blood lily conversion being part of the shaman/warpriest mechanic across a small number of spells.

    I cant imagine what the potency of heals would have to be baseline for that mechanic to work as a global modifier.

    "MY BIG HEAL IS ONLY 20 PERCENT EFFECTIVE UNTIL I HIT THE BOSS 4 MORE TIMES, DONT DIE!" works when your game isnt balanced around having to land those on demand, which can be back to back at times, or once every minute on others.

    That and you'd have to waste time on healing gcd's to do anything above meager damage.

    It would likely have worked better pre-revamp, but it's basically a ton of work to do what healers do as a baseline now.
    (2)
    Last edited by Barraind; 04-29-2020 at 12:56 PM.

  3. #113
    Player
    Enla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,748
    Character
    Crushing Fatigue
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Barraind View Post
    Were sadly probably never going to see a Shaman / Archmage / Warpriest / DoK style healer in 14, because 14 has no idea how to handle any kind of hybrid role outside 1 or 2 buttons.

    White Mage has the closest thing we'll get from those, with its lily -> blood lily conversion being part of the shaman/warpriest mechanic across a small number of spells.

    I cant imagine what the potency of heals would have to be baseline for that mechanic to work as a global modifier.

    "MY BIG HEAL IS ONLY 20 PERCENT EFFECTIVE UNTIL I HIT THE BOSS 4 MORE TIMES, DONT DIE!" works when your game isnt balanced around having to land those on demand, which can be back to back at times, or once every minute on others.

    That and you'd have to waste time on healing gcd's to do anything above meager damage.

    It would likely have worked better pre-revamp, but it's basically a ton of work to do what healers do as a baseline now.
    Not to mention that the balance team seems to be stuck in a tug of war between simultaneously believing healers should only heal, whilst also making our heals so overpowered that actually DPSing is the only way for half of us to remain invested at this point. So having a healer that actually acknowledges the reality of the healer meta in the game and provides a satisfying DPS rotation is unlikely to ever happen. Not unless they actually hire some of the best healers in this game and actually sit down to discuss some hard hitting changes that need to be made to their design philosophy.
    (1)

  4. #114
    Player
    Claire_Pendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    1,619
    Character
    Claire Pendragon
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Ignoring things like "number of melee to ranged jobs" and the like...
    I want another Maiming gear job. Preferably with some sort of weapon(s) which require a strong heavy swing. (not pokes, not precision cuts. Something that feels like a more typical warrior like DPS. ignoring that tanks are now just blue DPS) It could be a 2hander like hammers, maces, unique weapon, or even dual wielding 1 hand weapons. (or a weird combination of 2hand and 1 hand at the same time. w/e, doesnt matter) Currently the 4 melee we have, all "feel" like they are just very agile/dexterous/precise, and just dont look like the type that runs in swinging weapons. Something more aggressive feeling.

    Thats the closest to realistic I could ask for.
    But what Id want even more, SE would never make, since they are too set in their ways, and seem to only spend about an hour or less coming up with gameplay designs for new jobs. (Fine tuning it comes later, once they design is already decided.)
    (0)
    Last edited by Claire_Pendragon; 04-29-2020 at 03:55 PM.
    CLAIRE PENDRAGON

  5. #115
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,868
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    I'm honestly borderline pissed that we're in a game state where Time Mage, Mystic Knight, Spellblade, and the like are even reasonable choices. It just really seems to point out where the existing jobs (AST, DRK, RDM) have failed to utilize or have since gutted themes that were already given to them.

    If I had to decide, though... Whatever fills out our Maiming and Scouting armor classes in ways distinct from the existing cast of jobs.
    (2)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 04-29-2020 at 06:53 PM.

  6. #116
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,868
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Barraind View Post
    Were sadly probably never going to see a Shaman / Archmage / Warpriest / DoK style healer in 14, because 14 has no idea how to handle any kind of hybrid role outside 1 or 2 buttons.
    Healer: Good, we can just give it ~15 mostly shared actions, some arbitrary oGCDs, 1-2 actions that play off the ones given earlier, and call it a day.
    Tank: Great, we can give it ~15 mostly shared actions, 1-2 arbitrary oGCDs, and maybe give this one an oGCD DoT on a... short CD (I think we already used oGCD ST DoT on long CD and GCD DoT and AoE DoT on mid-GCD? -- oh, and combo DoT).
    DPS: Damnit, are we actually going to have to at least try to make something unique here. I hate designing jobs. Let me just do roles.
    (4)

  7. #117
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,887
    Character
    Edwin Li
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    I'm honestly borderline pissed that we're in a game state where Time Mage, Mystic Knight, Spellblade, and the like are even reasonable choices. It just really seems to point out where the existing jobs (AST, DRK, RDM) have failed to utilize or have since gutted themes that were already given to them.

    If I had to decide, though... Whatever fills out our Maiming and Scouting armor classes in ways distinct from the existing cast of jobs.
    The desire for a Spell blade and Mystic Knight, in my opinion, is more due to the lack of a actual Magic Melee DPS Job.

    DRK fills that Magic Melee Tank job because edgy darkness magic but we still lack a DPS job that is pure Magic Melee DPS.

    Red Mage is just another Range Magic job that has some melee mechanics added that extends back into Range Magic again.
    (4)

  8. #118
    Player
    Bright-Flower's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    2,828
    Character
    Nyr Ardyne
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    When it comes to DOW jobs at least, I'm more interested in seeing new and unique weapon types added than I am representing old jobs in particular.
    (0)

  9. #119
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,868
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by EdwinLi View Post
    The desire for a Spell blade and Mystic Knight, in my opinion, is more due to the lack of a actual Magic Melee DPS Job.

    DRK fills that Magic Melee Tank job because edgy darkness magic but we still lack a DPS job that is pure Magic Melee DPS.

    Red Mage is just another Range Magic job that has some melee mechanics added that extends back into Range Magic again.
    That's kind of my point, though. Why did DRK do nothing interesting with its magic? The difference between "Dark Magic" and "Pure Magic" is nothing but the color of its explosions.

    Likewise, why give a caster a sword and then make nothing but a glorified, more uptime-dependent (4-step) Foul out of it? Just feels like a failure to employ Chekhov's Gun.
    (0)

  10. #120
    Player
    EdwinLi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,887
    Character
    Edwin Li
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    That's kind of my point, though. Why did DRK do nothing interesting with its magic? The difference between "Dark Magic" and "Pure Magic" is nothing but the color of its explosions.

    Likewise, why give a caster a sword and then make nothing but a glorified, more uptime-dependent (4-step) Foul out of it? Just feels like a failure to employ Chekhov's Gun.
    I believe the issue lies with the role DRK is given being a Tank.

    Being a Tank the focus will be more on defense rather than offense. Usually the massive explosion stuff circles around a job that does DPS because it heavily emphasis on it showing heavy damage visually. As a Tank the visuals will be better fit into using Darkness to shroud the DRK for protection which can still be visually effective if they put visuals more into how Darkness protects through shrouding the Tank so it will not be visually explosive on attacks that does massive damage but more on the lighter animation for attacks to emphasis that they are more done to attract the attention of enemies rather than dealing massive damage on enemies. They still kill but not to a point the animations is explosive.


    As for Red Mage, well I think it is more of the identity crisis of Red Mage being either Range or Melee compared to a Spellsword and Mystic Knight which are heavily focused on being melee Magic attackers or tanks compared to Red Mage that always struggle being both a Melee and Range Magic attacker in FF games. Not to mention most incarnations of Red Mage in FF series is that Range Magic is the main focus of attacking and double casting it while the melee aspect is secondary or never used.

    You got both Range and Melee attacks but the job can only focus on one path as the main attack focus. If they go melee the player base will still just use all the range attacks for melee range because they will just build the energy to cast the Range magic then unload it in melee range. Then if they go Range as basic attack focus and Melee second we have what we have now being Range Attack then only go melee if we need to unload the 3 hit melee attacks.

    By job identity design, a Spellsword and Mystic Knight will be better suited to be a Melee Range DPS Job anyways since they have a more linked identity to be more focused on Melee Magic attacks compared to Red Mage which most incarnations focus on just using Range Magic attackers and double casting them.
    (1)
    Last edited by EdwinLi; 04-30-2020 at 01:03 AM.

Page 12 of 32 FirstFirst ... 2 10 11 12 13 14 22 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread