So, Mog station here we are

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

For me, it's the fact that we already pay a subscription fee to even play the game. On top of that, this game suffers from insane item bloat, but they can't give us another free retainer (but will happily charge you monthly for more). Add in a companion app that you can pay for to give you a (slight) leg up if you're a MB player. Then you have a rather large cash shop that is priced more in line with what a F2P game will charge you. Not all outfits are dyeable. Not all mounts are shared. Glamour items can't be stored in the armoire (but you can buy more storage, so who cares!).

I get that SE is a business, and they are generally out to make a profit. That's all fine and dandy. But then you have a game like XIV, and I personally find it be be severely lacking in a lot of ways - even compared to F2P or B2P games. People love to claim that cash shop funds are going back into this game, but where are we really seeing this? Why are server limitations constantly being blamed for why they can't implement someting? Why is housing such poo? Why are Viera & Hroth still unfinished? Why are we getting less dungeons, no deep dungeon, and whatever else has been cut recently? Why can't they fix these items....but still pump out outfit and outfit, and more emotes...all for the cash shop?

Perhaps there is some truth that there is in fact a separate cash shop team (has SE ever confirmed this?), but that's a relatively moot point to me. SE is still the one controlling all the various teams who produce anything for XIV. For how much money they seemingly pull from the playerbase, it's not reflected in-game IMO.

But still.....
...how is making, and selling a Dress in the Cash Shop that wasn't in the game to begin with a Greedy Practice...?

[Melichoir]

The criticism is completely legitimate and a lot of people feel the same way. I know I do. Squeenix is double dipping and it's a scummy move. Even if you look past that fact, then there's the fact that they're charging exorbitent prices for these pieces on top of that. That's not even getting into the fact that they are literally selling storage sp...sorry, RENTING storage space!

And this is why we cant have nice things. People make silly arguments.

It's not double dipping if youre not forced to buy it. If they were charging 15 sub, then you need to pay an additional 5 to access the roulettes and dungeons, then another 5 to use mounts, etc. That would be your double dipping cause then it brings up what is the 15 for. But this is glamour. Thats it. And when you look at the MMO market, this isnt new. It's only scummy because you are under the impression your 15 a month guarantees you everything that SE makes for the game. That is a perception issue YOU have. SE never told you "Hey, pay 15 a month and its all yours." They never gave you that offer. So becoming angry that theyre making some items as a side purchase for people to choose to buy it silly as hell.

Let me put it this way: Do you become enraged when you visit a zoo and dont get every item in teh gift shop for free with your ticket purchase?

Oh and incase anyone forgot, in that thread I linked I was stupid and bored enough to go through the mogstation, and a vast majority of items on there are from past events, or achievable in game or account related. I even listed it out. So dont tell me that youre being 'jipped' content. Also in that thread, we talked about the price comparison. Point that was brought up: Fortnite emotes was 7 or 8? So is FFXIVs. WoW charges 20 to 30 for a recolored mount, FFXIV is charging 18-30ish for unique mounts. And not all those mounts are even that great. Unless someone can lay down the cold hard facts that show that FFXIV is charging unreasonably above market value averages, I am not particularly interested in the point of "Exorbitant" prices, as that is more an opinion of what you personally feel something is worth.

But tell ya what, if your worries are that theyll just put everything on the cash shop, then unsub. Because at that point you can honestly ask what is it that the sub is actually getting you.

Just because every company is doing it, doesn't make it right. Nor does it make it an accepted practice, because the only people who accept it are marketing suits and whales. Cash shops are anti-consumer, doubly so when you're already paying a monthly fee just to access the game.

Also, when was the last time the Mogstation had a sale on costume pieces or mounts? I haven't seen one sale on those items since I started playing.

Why is this wrong? Cause you feel its wrong? Cause you feel youre entitled to everything made for the game? What is it? Because I dont know about you, but when I bought my sub, I was well aware of what it entailed. An occassional glamour or mount that ends up on mogstation doesn't surprise me, nor was that guaranteed to be given cause I have a sub. Again, this is you assuming you are entitled to things cause you have a sub. You paid to see the animals in the zoo at the door, so that doesnt mean you get to have everything in the gift shop without extra charge.

The people who accept it are just average people who think its a fair trade IF they think the price is worth it. Cash shops are not inherently anti consumer. Saying they are is, again, the whole issue with a zoo. Or a Stadium, or a theme park, or etc.

Because HEREs the real kicker - Do you think they would spend extra time and resources on content that would not generate them more income? If it was locked in at 15 a month, why would they spend money developing that robe? To get more people who are already subbed to the game to farm Titania? To draw in new players who wouldnt have access to that content for a while? What would be the plan?

Also Its been about a year I believe since they had mounts on sale. Not 100% but a few mounts were marked down in price, such as the two seater moogle mount, among others. So yeah, they do do it from time to time. They may do another sale come summer.

Are we taking to insulting people over their opinions now? I guess on one side we have the whiners and on the other fools who like to spend their money all willy-nilly.

Whats it to you what people spend their money on. If they feel its worth the price, who are you to say they shouldnt buy it. While I dont want to get into the "You dont pay my sub" cliche, this is more appropriate use of "Its my money, Ill spend it how I see fit."

What makes this more foolish is that we know that youre not calling people foolish cause you think it's a bad item or investment. You call it foolish because people choosing to buy something goes directly against the end goal you want - Mogstation to not exist so you get all those items "for free".

[Skivvy]

Whats it to you what people spend their money on. If they feel its worth the price, who are you to say they shouldnt buy it. While I dont want to get into the "You dont pay my sub" cliche, this is more appropriate use of "Its my money, Ill spend it how I see fit."

What makes this more foolish is that we know that youre not calling people foolish cause you think it's a bad item or investment. You call it foolish because people choosing to buy something goes directly against the end goal you want - Mogstation to not exist so you get all those items "for free".

You obviously missed the joke. I don't care what people spend their money on, however the person I was quoting was referring to people who take issue with the cash shop as "whiners", so i figured I'd come up with something as nonsensical for those who take no issue with it.

[Wiccan026]

But still.....
...how is making, and selling a Dress in the Cash Shop that wasn't in the game to begin with a Greedy Practice...?

It was apparently a greedy practice due to the fact it was not put in the game to earn in some manner.

Even though SE has said, I think in two live letters, could be wrong on that number, that the cash shop is a different team and all he can do is suggest. Which means that the people who work on cash shop things get paid via cash shop things not by subs since there a different entity. Which folks have already stated.

In short, if the cash shop folk produce it ends up the mogstation, the FFXIV team produce it than it ends up in game.

[MasuraoTsukino]

I think because people expect cash shops in free-to-play MMOs and they aren't keen on a cash shop in a subscription MMO.

Also, back in the day in 1.0 and early 2.0 before the cash shop existed - for event items you could just purchase anything you missed from the previous year event from an npc in-game during the next year's event. You can't do that now. If you miss it you have to buy it off the cash shop now.

Actually you can still do this kinda, if you did the event in game you can talk to the Recompense Officer, who is next to the Calamity Salvager, in Limsa, Ul'dah and Gridania, and while they wont have the NEWEST stuff, they generally tend to have stuff from events from completed about a year and older. Like I can buy the spriggan attire there from last hatchling tide event. So you dont have to spend money on it from the mogstation, if you completed the event, only if your character never completed or did it.

[Crushnight]

It's interesting that Savage gear is the sacred line that the cash shop should not cross for most people, when the common claim is that FF14 is aimed towards a casual playerbase and only a tiny percentage actually raids at Savage or above.

I'm not supporting gear in the cash shop at all, but curious why something that applies to something like 5% of players, that most don't care about and even admit on another thread here that they never intend to try it, is seen as no-go and "winning". While the greater majority of players collect glamour, minions, use retainers and participate in housing, but that's fine. Sometimes people use phrases like "you don't need vanity items", but do we need Savage gear? We don't even use gear in PvP here and logs break ToS so you can never show off your numbers.

So, why IS savage gear (that applies to hardly anyone) crossing the line, when vanity items (that apply to the majority) are all good?

Because it will cause a horrible snowball effect that would be impossible to recover from. There is a reason why WoW despite everything (it's highs and lows) never did this same with FFXI.

If you could buy full ilv 500 gear for £100 people who raid would drop the game hard and fast because their time they spent learning mechanics clearing week after week(do bare in mind depending on what you need takes around 1-2 months in statics to fully gear and longer for pugs) is but a price tag away for people who never need to touch the content, with next to no one running the content SE would get the brilliant idea to just cut it out altogether as not worth it no more. Now tomestones are BiS so they sell that instead, now you get the people who will leave and just not enter dungeons or anything max level no need to it's short easy and but a simple pay to win system right there. So now tomestones become near irrelevant so what's next EX trial gear, crafting gear (invalidating crafters with cha ching), normal modes. It's a nasty spiral that you never want to be on if you want to be a successful MMO with longevity.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It was apparently a greedy practice due to the fact it was not put in the game to earn in some manner.

So then its not greedy, people just want things for free.

[Amnmaat]

Back then when the Mog Station arrived some of us were already forseeing what was going to come.
We were insulted back then, literally but here we are my friends !



Is it a China exclusive ? Nop
Is it past event reward ? Nop
Is it SE, a small indie comapny, trying to milk us a little more like a korean F2P ? Yep

You don't want it, you don't buy it" too bad we don't have a fairy primal who could drop it as a costume like they did with 2B in the Factory...

Heavy! The dust bunny mount was foreshadowing this and many called you lunatics for thinking it. But here we are now, glamours that cost more than the sub itself. We're slowly entering Blade and Soul territory. Definitely disappointed, unless this money is going to male Viera/female Hrothgar, then I would gladly buy it.

[Melichoir]

You obviously missed the joke. I don't care what people spend their money on, however the person I was quoting was referring to people who take issue with the cash shop as "whiners", so i figured I'd come up with something as nonsensical for those who take no issue with it.

Well, then Im sorry I missed the joke. Thats my bad admittedly.

But I dont think it's far off base to call people complaining about cash shop as whiners at this point. The issue has been hashed out not even a month or so ago. This argument keeps coming up when SE puts something on the mogstation that people want for themselves but dont want to spend the money on, and then get worked up and put out silly as hell arguments about "Its anti consumer/SE is greedy/how dare they - I pay a sub" and so forth. It is whining at this point.

And to be absolutely fair - If people think cash shops are absolute cancer to games, and they straight up say "I personally will never buy anything from cash shops because I believe its bad for the gaming industry" and left it at that, Id disagree with their POV but atleast give them basic respect for sticking by their principles and not feeding into a system they disagree with. But no, we get the tirades about how evil SE is and Cash shop is and how it must be stopped and if you dont agree with me youre just a shill/whale/apologist/whatever.

I can tell you, Ive done this. When Overwatch started moving in a direction I didnt agree with, I stopped buying the loot boxes out of principle. Did I want skins and emotes and sprays. D- Straight I did, as I made it a big habit to get every skin/decal/emote/etc for DVa. But I wasnt gonna give my money to support their development direction in the game among other policies. So if I can do it, then anyone can. You dont agree with cash shop, dont spend your money there. Simple as that. People should about what they tehmselves can do, and less about what other people are doing.

[Sabrenn]

So then its not greedy, people just want things for free.

I don't want things for free, I want consistent quality overall. When stuff in game looks lower grade than mogstation stuff it's an issue in my opinion.

Like someone else said, it's subjective, but you can look at my post on page 7 and judge for yourself how much effort has been put into each outfit.

I don't mind if they put cute things on mogstation that look cool and different, I just want the in game stuff to have that same quality.

If we had caster outfits that had the same attention to detail, I'd be 100% fine with this dress. But no, they gave us floaty shoulder pads with square cuts and huge rivets. It's not like that gear is coming out of Eulmore, you know, the place that's supposed to be super fancy where we see super fancy people walking about with their servants......................