So, Mog station here we are

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I think the onus is upon you to tell us why calling out Squeenix for obviously greedy business practices is not a legitimate critique.

...how is making, and selling a Dress in the Cash Shop that wasn't in the game to begin with a Greedy Practice...?

[Skivvy]

...how is making, and selling a Dress in the Cash Shop that wasn't in the game to begin with a Greedy Practice...?

For me, it's the fact that we already pay a subscription fee to even play the game. On top of that, this game suffers from insane item bloat, but they can't give us another free retainer (but will happily charge you monthly for more). Add in a companion app that you can pay for to give you a (slight) leg up if you're a MB player. Then you have a rather large cash shop that is priced more in line with what a F2P game will charge you. Not all outfits are dyeable. Not all mounts are shared. Glamour items can't be stored in the armoire (but you can buy more storage, so who cares!).

I get that SE is a business, and they are generally out to make a profit. That's all fine and dandy. But then you have a game like XIV, and I personally find it be be severely lacking in a lot of ways - even compared to F2P or B2P games. People love to claim that cash shop funds are going back into this game, but where are we really seeing this? Why are server limitations constantly being blamed for why they can't implement someting? Why is housing such poo? Why are Viera & Hroth still unfinished? Why are we getting less dungeons, no deep dungeon, and whatever else has been cut recently? Why can't they fix these items....but still pump out outfit and outfit, and more emotes...all for the cash shop?

Perhaps there is some truth that there is in fact a separate cash shop team (has SE ever confirmed this?), but that's a relatively moot point to me. SE is still the one controlling all the various teams who produce anything for XIV. For how much money they seemingly pull from the playerbase, it's not reflected in-game IMO.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

For me, it's the fact that we already pay a subscription fee to even play the game. On top of that, this game suffers from insane item bloat, but they can't give us another free retainer (but will happily charge you monthly for more). Add in a companion app that you can pay for to give you a (slight) leg up if you're a MB player. Then you have a rather large cash shop that is priced more in line with what a F2P game will charge you. Not all outfits are dyeable. Not all mounts are shared. Glamour items can't be stored in the armoire (but you can buy more storage, so who cares!).

I get that SE is a business, and they are generally out to make a profit. That's all fine and dandy. But then you have a game like XIV, and I personally find it be be severely lacking in a lot of ways - even compared to F2P or B2P games. People love to claim that cash shop funds are going back into this game, but where are we really seeing this? Why are server limitations constantly being blamed for why they can't implement someting? Why is housing such poo? Why are Viera & Hroth still unfinished? Why are we getting less dungeons, no deep dungeon, and whatever else has been cut recently? Why can't they fix these items....but still pump out outfit and outfit, and more emotes...all for the cash shop?

Perhaps there is some truth that there is in fact a separate cash shop team (has SE ever confirmed this?), but that's a relatively moot point to me. SE is still the one controlling all the various teams who produce anything for XIV. For how much money they seemingly pull from the playerbase, it's not reflected in-game IMO.

But still.....
...how is making, and selling a Dress in the Cash Shop that wasn't in the game to begin with a Greedy Practice...?

[Wiccan026]

But still.....
...how is making, and selling a Dress in the Cash Shop that wasn't in the game to begin with a Greedy Practice...?

It was apparently a greedy practice due to the fact it was not put in the game to earn in some manner.

Even though SE has said, I think in two live letters, could be wrong on that number, that the cash shop is a different team and all he can do is suggest. Which means that the people who work on cash shop things get paid via cash shop things not by subs since there a different entity. Which folks have already stated.

In short, if the cash shop folk produce it ends up the mogstation, the FFXIV team produce it than it ends up in game.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

It was apparently a greedy practice due to the fact it was not put in the game to earn in some manner.

So then its not greedy, people just want things for free.

[Sabrenn]

So then its not greedy, people just want things for free.

I don't want things for free, I want consistent quality overall. When stuff in game looks lower grade than mogstation stuff it's an issue in my opinion.

Like someone else said, it's subjective, but you can look at my post on page 7 and judge for yourself how much effort has been put into each outfit.

I don't mind if they put cute things on mogstation that look cool and different, I just want the in game stuff to have that same quality.

If we had caster outfits that had the same attention to detail, I'd be 100% fine with this dress. But no, they gave us floaty shoulder pads with square cuts and huge rivets. It's not like that gear is coming out of Eulmore, you know, the place that's supposed to be super fancy where we see super fancy people walking about with their servants......................

[Tsumdere]

I don't want things for free, I want consistent quality overall. When stuff in game looks lower grade than mogstation stuff it's an issue in my opinion.

Like someone else said, it's subjective, but you can look at my post on page 7 and judge for yourself how much effort has been put into each outfit.

I don't mind if they put cute things on mogstation that look cool and different, I just want the in game stuff to have that same quality.

If we had caster outfits that had the same attention to detail, I'd be 100% fine with this dress. But no, they gave us floaty shoulder pads with square cuts and huge rivets. It's not like that gear is coming out of Eulmore, you know, the place that's supposed to be super fancy where we see super fancy people walking about with their servants......................

That gear is Crystarium gear, so it's most likely designed after what people in the Crystarium wear - not what the people in Eulmore wear. As the people in the Crystarium are working folk with their gear being basic or armour a bit of a low-fantasy twist, the armor sets fit perfectly.

I like the Crystarium gear you showed more than I do the fae dress. It's more visually appealing, doesn't have gaudy additions like the wings, dyes very nicely, and doesn't have strange pixelated textures. Once again, it's subjective. Just putting my two cents out there that in my opinion, there isn't a quality issue going on, it just happens to not cater to your taste.

[MariaArvana]

I don't want things for free, I want consistent quality overall. When stuff in game looks lower grade than mogstation stuff it's an issue in my opinion.

Like someone else said, it's subjective, but you can look at my post on page 7 and judge for yourself how much effort has been put into each outfit.

I don't mind if they put cute things on mogstation that look cool and different, I just want the in game stuff to have that same quality.

If we had caster outfits that had the same attention to detail, I'd be 100% fine with this dress. But no, they gave us floaty shoulder pads with square cuts and huge rivets. It's not like that gear is coming out of Eulmore, you know, the place that's supposed to be super fancy where we see super fancy people walking about with their servants......................

Well, considering the gear is called -crystarium- gear, I don't think it's really coming from Eulmore. Just saying :P

But the simple reality between the quality difference is that the mogstation team is separate from the main dev team. Think about it. Every 3.5-4 months, the main dev modelers have to create hundreds of 3D models for unique gear, and create new textures/color mappings for anything they re-skin. Not to mention all the enemy models for raids, instances, etc that are unique. Taking a look at the eorzea database, they added in several hundred items in patch 5.2 alone (Crystarium, Edenchoir, Neo-Ishgardian, Ruby Weapons, Dalmascan draped set, Corsages for head, Craftsman's apron set, Re-textured gear for Anamesis list goes on, even before counting monster/arena/etc models)

Compare that to the mogstation team, who have barely any workload compared to it. Who knows what their deadlines are, but given the sparsity of their unique additions, I doubt they're anywhere as strict as the main dev team's. So its no surprise their stuff is higher quality; not only do they get more time to work on it, but they aren't as hard pressed as the main dev team is, considering they're having to make hundreds of less models than the main dev team does. I can almost guarantee you that it's not that "they know exactly what they're doing by putting more flamboyant stuff up on the mog and giving us boring outfits." It's simple dev workloads vs time constraints in action. Of course the team that gets to spend literal months painstakingly working on a small number of items will churn out much flashier and well built stuff than a team that has to create 3-4 tiers of ilvl worth of sets for every role (Fending/Healing/Casting/Striking/Maiming/Aiming/Scouting), each with unique models in a very short timespan.

[Edax]

It was apparently a greedy practice due to the fact it was not put in the game to earn in some manner.

Even though SE has said, I think in two live letters, could be wrong on that number, that the cash shop is a different team and all he can do is suggest. Which means that the people who work on cash shop things get paid via cash shop things not by subs since there a different entity. Which folks have already stated.

In short, if the cash shop folk produce it ends up the mogstation, the FFXIV team produce it than it ends up in game.

Of course, SE has the authority to expand the staff on FFXIV and even get the cash shop team to work on free content. It's not like SE has to have a seperate cash shop team outside of FFXIV's main team.

[JamieRose]

...how is making, and selling a Dress in the Cash Shop that wasn't in the game to begin with a Greedy Practice...?

Because you're already paying for content, so technically you're paying for it twice. There's no reason not to include it in a game that they're already making money off of with copies sold + monthly fees.

And this is why we cant have nice things. People make silly arguments.

It's not double dipping if youre not forced to buy it. If they were charging 15 sub, then you need to pay an additional 5 to access the roulettes and dungeons, then another 5 to use mounts, etc. That would be your double dipping cause then it brings up what is the 15 for. But this is glamour. Thats it. And when you look at the MMO market, this isnt new. It's only scummy because you are under the impression your 15 a month guarantees you everything that SE makes for the game. That is a perception issue YOU have. SE never told you "Hey, pay 15 a month and its all yours." They never gave you that offer. So becoming angry that theyre making some items as a side purchase for people to choose to buy it silly as hell.

Let me put it this way: Do you become enraged when you visit a zoo and dont get every item in teh gift shop for free with your ticket purchase?

Oh and incase anyone forgot, in that thread I linked I was stupid and bored enough to go through the mogstation, and a vast majority of items on there are from past events, or achievable in game or account related. I even listed it out. So dont tell me that youre being 'jipped' content. Also in that thread, we talked about the price comparison. Point that was brought up: Fortnite emotes was 7 or 8? So is FFXIVs. WoW charges 20 to 30 for a recolored mount, FFXIV is charging 18-30ish for unique mounts. And not all those mounts are even that great. Unless someone can lay down the cold hard facts that show that FFXIV is charging unreasonably above market value averages, I am not particularly interested in the point of "Exorbitant" prices, as that is more an opinion of what you personally feel something is worth.

But tell ya what, if your worries are that theyll just put everything on the cash shop, then unsub. Because at that point you can honestly ask what is it that the sub is actually getting you.




Why is this wrong? Cause you feel its wrong? Cause you feel youre entitled to everything made for the game? What is it? Because I dont know about you, but when I bought my sub, I was well aware of what it entailed. An occassional glamour or mount that ends up on mogstation doesn't surprise me, nor was that guaranteed to be given cause I have a sub. Again, this is you assuming you are entitled to things cause you have a sub. You paid to see the animals in the zoo at the door, so that doesnt mean you get to have everything in the gift shop without extra charge.

The people who accept it are just average people who think its a fair trade IF they think the price is worth it. Cash shops are not inherently anti consumer. Saying they are is, again, the whole issue with a zoo. Or a Stadium, or a theme park, or etc.

Because HEREs the real kicker - Do you think they would spend extra time and resources on content that would not generate them more income? If it was locked in at 15 a month, why would they spend money developing that robe? To get more people who are already subbed to the game to farm Titania? To draw in new players who wouldnt have access to that content for a while? What would be the plan?

Also Its been about a year I believe since they had mounts on sale. Not 100% but a few mounts were marked down in price, such as the two seater moogle mount, among others. So yeah, they do do it from time to time. They may do another sale come summer.




Whats it to you what people spend their money on. If they feel its worth the price, who are you to say they shouldnt buy it. While I dont want to get into the "You dont pay my sub" cliche, this is more appropriate use of "Its my money, Ill spend it how I see fit."

What makes this more foolish is that we know that youre not calling people foolish cause you think it's a bad item or investment. You call it foolish because people choosing to buy something goes directly against the end goal you want - Mogstation to not exist so you get all those items "for free".

There are two kinds of people who make these arguments, fanboys and whales.

Either you're such an obsessed fan you are willing to accept anything and everything the company does to the point where you have to white knight it, or you have so much money to throw away that you think since this is not a problem for you, it's not a problem for anyone.