Monk Needs a Complete Rework

[Kolsykol]

I kinda agree and kinda disagree.

On the one hand, I think that the fundamentals of the job, meaning the basic GCD loop, the basic concept of Greased Lighting, and form based combos are a solid foundation. They don't need to be reworked in the way that SB Machinist did where they threw the entire thing out and started over.

However the way they've handled not just action additions or new traits, but also adjusted existing skills such as Dragon Kick by adding Leaden Bootshine, has left the job with an expanded kit that's confused, utterly lacking in synergy, and unsatisfying to play. To make Monk players happy at this point I'd tentatively say that they need to outright replace Fists of Earth, Wind and Fire plus the two traits attached to them, and they need to either revise or replace Dragon Kick/Leaden Bootshine, Tornado Kick, Riddle of Earth, Brotherhood, Anatman, Six Sided Star, and Deep Meditation 1 and 2. That's 9 skills currently in the kit that need reworking and nearly every post ARR trait which basically encompasses everything to do with how its gauge works, how it builds resources, and how it spends that resource. That also isn't even touching on returning skills to it's kit that it would benefit from such as Touch of Death/Fracture which had significantly more utility on Monk than just being DoTs.

The amount of work it needs even if they keep the core is, frankly, depressing. There's no reason it should have been allowed to get this bad, but hey, they were very proud of it on launch.

I suppose that it's a question about how we define '' rework '', to me I sorta interpret that as what happened with Machinist but yeah.

I actually do find it fun to play and don't think that it's as bad as people make it out to be but that's also a matter of opinion, I mean I prefer the old sound effects for GNB but people complained and they changed it to the new ones.
My main issue with Monk really is that it just feels like everyone keeps getting new toys and have this sense of progression in their rotations but here we are still doing more or less the same things we've been doing since the beginning xD......
I just kinda want this progression to happen like what happened with BLM, how they went from the small firebolts to these huge F4 explosions. Make us feel like our characters have actually become these Master Monks. Because it doesn't really feel like it tbh.
And the annoying thing is that we actually did get these toys, but they just won't let us use them.
I remember when I saw the trailer for Shadowbringers where they showed off the new abilities, and I saw Six-Sided Star and was all like '' NICE! ''.
It was the same with Tornado Kick.
But then nooope, barely ever used lol.
The traits really do feel pretty boring too, and I think that it's kinda unnecessary to have Fists of Fire and Wind be so separated.

But yeah, even tho I am still having fun with Monk it could still be way better and there's some pretty obvious problems.

[SpeckledBurd]

I suppose that it's a question about how we define '' rework '', to me I sorta interpret that as what happened with Machinist but yeah.

I actually do find it fun to play and don't think that it's as bad as people make it out to be but that's also a matter of opinion, I mean I prefer the old sound effects for GNB but people complained and they changed it to the new ones.
My main issue with Monk really is that it just feels like everyone keeps getting new toys and have this sense of progression in their rotations but here we are still doing more or less the same things we've been doing since the beginning xD......
I just kinda want this progression to happen like what happened with BLM, how they went from the small firebolts to these huge F4 explosions. Make us feel like our characters have actually become these Master Monks. Because it doesn't really feel like it tbh.
And the annoying thing is that we actually did get these toys, but they just won't let us use them.
I remember when I saw the trailer for Shadowbringers where they showed off the new abilities, and I saw Six-Sided Star and was all like '' NICE! ''.
It was the same with Tornado Kick.
But then nooope, barely ever used lol.

The traits really do feel pretty boring too, and I think that it's kinda unnecessary to have Fists of Fire and Wind be so separated.

I suppose the problem with the term Rework right now is its been used to describe pretty much any time a job's kit has seen change. The Stormblood action rework didn't fundamentally change many jobs at all, but the Machinist rework rebuilt an entire new job that used Machinist's existing animations.

In this case, my point was that Monk has so much in its kit that needs revision that to actually satisfy Monk players at this point they're going to need to almost put in Machinist level rework anyway. It's kit outside of the core is just that busted.

[VentVanitas]

I just kinda want this progression to happen like what happened with BLM, how they went from the small firebolts to these huge F4 explosions. Make us feel like our characters have actually become these Master Monks. Because it doesn't really feel like it tbh.

Outside of purely mechanical or gameplay problems, this is probably my biggest gripe with MNK. There is no aesthetic progression or consistency. Someone had already pointed out in another thread that Elixir Field, while looks cool, makes absolutely no sense. If we learn EF that early, then why does it take us two expansions to essentially do the same move, but sideways? (Enlightenment)

The way that skills are laid out over the levels and how you learn them, makes the WoL as a monk, look incredibly forgetful or the worst pupil ever. (Ignoring the fact that the MNK questlines already do this...) Did wandering the wastes of Norvrandt without a tutor fry our brains or something?

[Shurrikhan]

Outside of purely mechanical or gameplay problems, this is probably my biggest gripe with MNK. There is no aesthetic progression or consistency. Someone had already pointed out in another thread that Elixir Field, while looks cool, makes absolutely no sense. If we learn EF that early, then why does it take us two expansions to essentially do the same move, but sideways? (Enlightenment)

I've never been a fan of Elixir Field. It looks like it should be this fitting decisive "all in" spender of some granular resource, where one benefits in certain ways from having so rapidly spent that resource or from having emptied it, but instead it's just... mediocre free damage.

Heck, it makes me wish MNK would go more down the "action" route and have positionally dependent skills. No target and mid-jump? You get the EF we have now. Targeted? Enlightenment? Targeted, mid-jump? A combination of the two that allows you to vault away. Etc., etc.

[Kolsykol]

I've never been a fan of Elixir Field. It looks like it should be this fitting decisive "all in" spender of some granular resource, where one benefits in certain ways from having so rapidly spent that resource or from having emptied it, but instead it's just... mediocre free damage.

Heck, it makes me wish MNK would go more down the "action" route and have positionally dependent skills. No target and mid-jump? You get the EF we have now. Targeted? Enlightenment? Targeted, mid-jump? A combination of the two that allows you to vault away. Etc., etc.

The name itself doesn't even make sense to me lol.
'' Elixir Field ''. Wat?
I thought I was a Monk, not an Alchemist xD...

I don't mind the jump into the air and all that, but I think it'd be cool too if instead of jumping into the air and doing it your character did more of a Hadoken move and the beam went forward instead.
Heck, I want a Shoryuken move too lol.
I mean cmon, there's so much to draw from just looking at fighting games as inspiration.
Or Chun's Hyakuretsukyaku.

There's such an endless amount of reference material to be inspired by, far more than with other classes.

[Shurrikhan]

The name itself doesn't even make sense to me lol.
'' Elixir Field ''. Wat?
I thought I was a Monk, not an Alchemist xD...

Sadly, even the only version named differently, the Japanese, amounts only to "Blue Energy Cannon". I mean, really?

With the power of, something... maybe Chakra... maybe Ki... maybe Greased Lightning... I get to use a 220-potency AoE once every 30 seconds via a big Blue Energy Cannon?

[Seto_Mimyho]

New Skill 1 - Opo-opo form, Single target, lower base potency than Bootshine, gains 150 potency from Leaden Fist (same as Bootshine), generates a Chakra if you have fewer than 3. Deep Meditation procs would still apply as normal.
New Skill 2 - Raptor form, Single target, base potency lower than True Strike. Gains potency if you have fewer than 3 Chakra open which would put it over True Strike.
New Skill 3 - Coeurl Form, Single target, base potency lower than Snap Punch. Gains potency if you have 3 or more Chakra open which would put it over Snap Punch, but would still be lower than Demolish's total potency. Would generate GL

You don't seem to be getting what I was getting at. Having 9 GCDs fighting over each other for usage will not solve or fix anything with MNK. Brotherhood's Buff of giving you chakras from other player's weaponskills would cause your proposed 3 skills to be detrimental due to the RNG of it and in standard rotation would throw off any sort of rhythm/harmony that the GCD skills we have at current provide. The core rotation of MNK has almost never been an issue and throwing new GCDs into the mix would only muddle things and in practice would be an utter nightmare to optimize/execute.

... just not so naive to think that all the Monk's problems would be fixed by fixing GL.

You know what you're right, but at current the big things that need to be fixed are (in order of most important to least important, personal opinion).

• Greased Lightning
• Lack of oGCDs
• Amount of Abilities that manipulate Greased Lightning
• Bootshine (Leaden Fist) not being the only thing keeping this class alive DPSwise.

[SpeckledBurd]

Sadly, even the only version named differently, the Japanese, amounts only to "Blue Energy Cannon". I mean, really?

With the power of, something... maybe Chakra... maybe Ki... maybe Greased Lightning... I get to use a 220-potency AoE once every 30 seconds via a big Blue Energy Cannon?

Elixir Field is actually an odd, probably overly literal translation of a concept related to the same Chinese mysticism/martial arts that the ideas of Chakras and chi come from that could also be translated as "Sea of Chi".

Honestly anything would have been a better name for it like "Roaring Wave Fist" or "Silent Roar" like Ivon Coeurlfist's Hadoken move was called. I'd also throw the same criticism at "Enlightenment", because nothing says spiritual realization like firing a laser out of your hands.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

It's actually a really odd, overly literal translation of a concept related to Chinese mysticism/martial arts that the ideas of Chakras and chi come from that could also be translated as "Sea of Chi".

Honestly anything would have been a better name for it like "Roaring Wave Fist" or "Silent Roar" like Ivon Coeurlfists Hadoken move was called. Though I'd also throw the same criticism at "Enlightenment", because nothing says spiritual realization like firing a laser out of your hands.

Surprised they didn't just call it Aura Cannon since that's Sabin's move in FF6 and looks practically identical. Plus Aura Cannon sounds a lot more cooler than Enlightenment- which seems like it would suit a better name to Anatman.

[Ultimatecalibur]

You don't seem to be getting what I was getting at. Having 9 GCDs fighting over each other for usage will not solve or fix anything with MNK. Brotherhood's Buff of giving you chakras from other player's weaponskills would cause your proposed 3 skills to be detrimental due to the RNG of it and in standard rotation would throw off any sort of rhythm/harmony that the GCD skills we have at current provide. The core rotation of MNK has almost never been an issue and throwing new GCDs into the mix would only muddle things and in practice would be an utter nightmare to optimize/execute.

I think you are far over estimating the difficulty of execution/optimization (save for on paper) and interference in rhythm/harmony.

All the addition of these 3 skills would do is create a simple priority system based on current Form and number of open Chakra. Open Chakra is something that the gauge makes highly visible already even when you only currently need to be aware of 2 states (5 open and less than 5 open). These new skills would only add a single new state to track: less than 3 open.

Opo-opo Form:

• Is Leaden Fist not up? Dragonkick
• 0, 1 or 2 Chakra open? New Skill 1
• 3 or 4 Chakra open? Bootshine

Raptor Form:

• Is Twin Snakes not up? Twin Snakes
• 0, 1 or 2 Chakra open? New Skill 2
• 3 or 4 Chakra open? True Strike

Coeurl form:

• Is Demolish not up? Demolish
• 0, 1 or 2 Chakra open? Snap Punch
• 3, 4 or 5 Chakra open? New Skill 3

Brotherhood is only active 15s every 90s. The remaining 75s Monk is constantly at the whims of RNG to determine when the next Forbidden Chakra comes up (and even with Brotherhood they are still at the whims of RNG). It could be within 5 gcds or the Monk could be waiting for in indeterminate amount of time if RNG really doesn't likely them, but on average a monk is waiting about 17 or 18 gcds per FC.

Bootshine (Leaden Fist) not being the only thing keeping this class alive DPSwise.

Solvable by pushing the average potency of the Raptor Form and Coeurl Form rotations up to around 250 potency.

which seems like it would suit a better name to Anatman.

Anatman is the concept of no true self and therefore no true duration which explains Anatman freezing GL.