Mogstation taking another step to the darkside

[Melichoir]

One of my friends pointed out something important: we're basically getting less content that comes with our sub for the same price. Not only are they really pushing adding more stuff to the cash shop (which basically means less stuff for us), but we're now getting one less dungeon per patch (for DoL/H stuff but that really shouldn't affect what we're getting), the collectors' edition of expansions don't come with as many perks/freebies as they did with (say) ARR, they didn't give us a healing class as we really needed one, Hrothgar & Viera are a total hot mess and despite making new gear (e.g. helmets and hair) they're not making them suitable for either race and they're gender locked, they're prioritising making shit for cash shop instead of working on instead of prioritising things that both need to be addressed (e.g. talking to the playerbase so we know what's going on with things like the healing classes, the races) and fixed.

Ive already addressed the "were getting less for the same price" position. But Ill elaborate again for you and anyone else who keeps banging on this point.

There is a failure of consideration for what is occuring currently in ffxiv. For starters, the "less dungeons" thing hasnt been fully explained yet. There are reasonable explanations for this issue. Namely the following:

Viera/Hrothgar Dissastisfaction - There's actually a lot to address here. Not only with the simple fact that theyre locked into one sex apiece which has made a decent part of the player base upset, the fact that customization is such a pain in the ass is also a problem. To fix either of these problems would require a lot more resources and time. As a result they may be pulling resources from other teams (Like dungeon development) to help cover this. This is particularly true IF (and its a big IF) theyre making the male/female varietns respectively, as this would require htem to go back and do heavy adjustments for armors and the like to get this to work. Now you can blame the devs for splitting them in the first place. You can say it was a poor decision, but it was the decision that was made none the less and thats where were at now. I would not, however, be suprised if this was where resources was being diverted too because it does seem that based on what we wer told, the decision to do two races instead of one came relatively late in the dev cycle for ShB.

Server load issues - This is a bit of a bigger one. There's actually a lot of issues with server load that have been mentioned off hand. This included everything from dungeon and raid servers, to housing servers, to instances on maps. The more dungeons they add (or content in general) along with their aspirations, the harder the servers are hit. It takes time and money to address this issue, which means that some resources may be diverted to addressing this. Especially since it has been on YoshiP's radar to increase housing item placement. On paper its super simple, but in practice...not so much.

Quality of Content - This is, admittedly more subjective a concept overall, but I think there is some level of objectivity to state that the overall quality of the content we have been recieving has been better than previous expansions. While one can argue we've been getting less (and even then I think that is a bit of a stretch as the only down sizing I can really point too atm is 1 less dungeon if we discount any issues like Hrothgar/Viera hairstyles as that is a separate issue that needs an overhaul), I think the quality of what weve gotten has been better. I like the beast tribes more this xpac than any previous ones. Mounts look nicer and cooler, Im a fan of the emotes and available items we are getting from the firmament. The boss fights and dungeons are funner, dialogue is better, etc etc. There is definitely better quality. That higher quality has more cost in terms of time and resources.


Now about htat prioritization...

As I mentioned before, SE isnt twirling their mustaches evilly thinking about how they can screw over the little guy. They are doing basic cost analysis and allocating resources as any major business would to maximize profit. They will dedicate some money to mog station exclusives if they feel that money will generate more revenue than putting it directly into the game. This is them diversifying their cash flow and its not a bad thing.

For example, if the Spriggen mount costed them 25k to develop, and it nets them 100k in purchases, that is a good use of their money. If they take that 25k and pump it into teh game, what do they get out of it? It wouldnt cover the cost of an extra dev, as theyre probably 40-60k a pop. It's not like they need it for art programs or assets, as those are already bought/leased and accounted for. Overtime maybe? Thats cost inefficient as hell and most businesses hate paying OT if possible. Sometimes the best thing for the game IS a mogstation item.

Then consider SE and what is on mogstation - Most of the items there are from existing events, which if you were subbed wouldve gotten. Or from Conventions. Or items you can purchase in game (Dyes), or do with out (jump potions and fantasia). There arent that many items that are specific to mog station glamor or mount wise. This isnt like Blizzard who uses Lootboxes for Glamour (Gambling Proxy), or EA who cuts off parts of the game to resell as DLC. SE, in this regards, is pretty on the level compared to most companies.

We already pay approximately $180 USD a year (+60 or more every two years) assuming we sub every month and there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of players.

I did a cost breakdown on SE regarding FFXIV per month a few pages back. Even wiht the money they bring in, it doesnt mean its completely without overhead costs. And even in that break down, I DOUBLED the player base count average. FFXIV census, while out of date, displays around 750k active subs. I highly doubt FFXIV has doubled its sub count in that period of time. Even with the doubled average, After costs I said theyd maybe have 5 Million spare, at best.

Point is, you are assuming that theyre swimming in tons of cash, and I think this is a huge misconception from players complaining about this whole thing. Every dollar SE pulls in from Subs doesnt mean its a dollar to blow in vegas gangsta style. For every dollar they bring in, Id probably guess that 75 cents of it goes towards overall expenses, and thats optimistic.

Stop milking us like a massive barn of cash cows. This isn't a F2P game, so much items should not be locked behind a cash shop like a F2P game and the amount of content we get "for free" should not be dwindling. NEWSFLASH, IT'S NOT FREE. WE PAY EVERY MONTH. Patches come out every 3-4 months. Accumulatively, we pay approximately $45-$60 every patch release ($15*3=$45, $15*4=$60) for the new content they give us; that's the price of a whole new game. We don't usually get enough content to be worth the same price of an entirely new game. Therefore, the items and content we receive should not be dwindling as it is. Items should not be locked behind a cashshop (at least not as many as there currently are and will eventually grow to be.). There is a level of expectation of what a subbed MMO should provide with its content for paying customers VS a F2P game.

Oh please, just hush! You pay SE for the services you agreed upon. Your sub doesnt include 100% of every aspect of the game. It pays for probably 95% of everything that is available in the game, and that is a transaction YOU have agreed to with them. Theyre not milking you for jack. You are being given an extraordinary amount of goodies FOR YOUR SUB COST compared to what else is on the market, and when they release a side mount or glamour, That is purely UP TO YOU if you want to buy it as it is cosmetic. This isnt comparable to, again, Blizzard where if you want Glamours, gotta Lootbox that crap. Or EA where if you want the game you gotta buy that day one DLC for content. Could you even imagine playing this and Glamours and mounts were all Lootbox based where you were expected to pay CASH to gamble for those items? Or if you wanted to play the new neir raid, thats a $ tag you gotta buy or you cant go in.

That 60 you pay for an expac + sub over two years for 3 Tiers of Savage, 3 24 Man Raids between 7-12 dungeons, Like 7 extreme fights, MSQ, Weapon Quests, Side Quests, Crafting/Gathering Shenanigans, Holiday Events, Emotes and rewards from PvP and other events, Cross over content, and etc. And you are getting 'milked dry' by SE. Damn, for $60 for an expac by itself, I get more content than a standard AAA title now a days. Yet SE is the greedy ones here? Christ.

If SE wants to focus more on cash shop, make the game F2P. If not, then stop prioritising cash shop items that can't otherwise be obtained within the game. (But better yet, stop wasting resources by making more stuff for Mogstation and start working on things that need fixing, please.)

And I bet if this were the case people would still B about cash shop. Why might I think this? Cause I see this on other F2P MMOs. And btw, doesnt matter how you cut it, P2P MMOs tend to overall be better quality than their F2P counter parts, particularly since F2P ones tend to sacrifice quality for cost efficiency, and if they dont, they nickle and dime you way harder than the P2P models.

Sorry for being an ass, but I'm still pretty burnt on all the crap that's happened with Shadowbringers. Story aside (and the new DoH/L stuff is cool), it was easily the worst expansion release they've had so far in terms of classes and races and so on. I would take Raubahn EX over this fiasco. It just feels disrespectful. SE feels like they are being disrespected (and they are, to be fair), but they're also disrespecting us - their consumers. Without them, the game wouldn't exist. But without us, they wouldn't even have the funds to continue this game. We're codependent on each other, so we should be more respectful towards each other. As far as I'm concerned, they're acting like they're very entitled to our money and they're not. We choose to fund them. For our funding, they provide us with the game. It's like a patreon thing. One does not subscribe to his/her/their favourite youtuber or artist expecting to not benefit from it. One expects to benefit and their money be compensated in some way. If one is no longer benefiting, one unsubscribes. It's that simple. If a creator makes their memberbase unhappy, well... There goes a possible paycheck. What I'm trying to say is... It's good and fair to get paid for (it is their job), but they're not entitled to it as they've been acting and I'm finding this money grubbing attitude to be very tasteless and disrespectful.

Sorry you dont like ShB. Plenty of people do though. If you dont like what SE is doing, unsub. Stop paying money into a business model you dont like. Its your wallet, your money. You dont have to pay for anything you disapprove of. Ive done this with several games myself. Where Ive become so disgusted with the direction of those games I stopped purchasing things from them. However, it looks more like you want to rant and rave and complain about $26 and think that SE is being 'soooo unfairrrrrr' and greedy, and arent looking at things not only from THEIR PERSPECTIVE, but also in perspective of the market and what were being offered. Does this mean I dont have criticisms for SE? Of course not. Ive got my gripes to have. But this isnt one of them. This is reasonable to me. If I want that mount, I buy it. If I dont want it, Id ont buy it. If enough people dont buy mounts, SE will look into other revenue methods. If people say "Hmm this seems reasonable" and buy it, SE will continue to this. And please dont resort to that tired argument of "People are stupid and suckered into things." Most of the players in this game arent stupid. They can think for themselves and come to the conclusion of whether something is worth their money or not. This isnt some conspiracy or evil natured action. Its basic Econ 101. Stop complaining and do something if you have a problem about it. Unsub and spend your money on Brands you think are giving you the deal you want.

[SamRF]

It has been several times mentioned that it only makes sense what SE is doing with the Cash Shop and that we aren't entitled to anything by paying for the sub and how this thread always shows up when new items get added.

I've kind of said this earlier, but I doubt anybody is actually feeling entitled to get anything, but is instead simply giving feedback on how the game should be according to them if it is to meet their satisfaction.

SE wants to make the best business descisions and things they have to take into consideration for making the right descisions is player satisfaction. These threads and posts critical of Cash Shop are players expressing their dissatisfaction which can be considered by SE as a sign to tone it down. If it won't be considered by SE anyway, then you can use that as your argument, but imo don't come with saying people are feeling too entitled for this or that or that the sub we pay is only meant for this or that and that we should be silent because it only makes "sense" that SE does this.

Thats the point though about complaining about it, changing what would make sense for SE by expressing dissatisfaction.

That's the point of feedback. Make counter argument against this feedback, give why you think Cash Shop should exist but don't come talking about rights and entitlement or such cause it's completely beside the point (imo).

[linay]

I doubt anybody is actually feeling entitled to get anything

If someone says that they've bought the game/expansion or paid the subscription fee and uses that as an argument for why they should not have to make additional purchase, then they are making an entitlement claim.

Make counter argument against this feedback, give why you think Mog Station should exist

An argument for why something should exist is only necessary if it doesn't exist. The store already exists.

but don't come talking about rights and entitlement or such cause it's completely beside the point (imo).

Well, your opinion is wrong because the very first post in this thread stated the point:

the point is after paying all this money to play the game now they are starting to gate seasonal items in the cashshop....Just wow.

So it is very much on point to argue if that sense of entitlement is misplaced (not that it's always the case).

[Melichoir]

It has been several times mentioned that it only makes sense what SE is doing with the Cash Shop and that we aren't entitled to anything by paying for the sub and how this thread always shows up when new items get added.

I've kind of said this earlier, but I doubt anybody is actually feeling entitled to get anything, but is instead simply giving feedback on how the game should be according to them if it is to meet their satisfaction.

SE wants to make the best business descisions and things they have to take into consideration for making the right descisions is player satisfaction. These threads and posts critical of Mog Station are players expressing their dissatisfaction which can be considered by SE as a sign to tone it down. If it won't be considered by SE anyway, then you can use that as your argument, but imo don't come with saying people are feeling too entitled for this or that or that the sub we pay is only meant for this or that and that we should be silent because it only makes "sense" that SE does this.

Thats the point though about complaining about it, changing what would make sense for SE by expressing dissatisfaction.

That's the point of feedback. Make counter argument against this feedback, give why you think Mog Station should exist but don't come talking about rights and entitlement or such cause it's completely beside the point (imo).

The issue is were not seeing feedback or critiques. Were seeing a lot of misplaced rage and demands and bad faith argumentation. Feedback and criticism require some thought and care. For example, Good feed back would be like this: "The recent changes to the bard class dont work and are resulting in x, y, and z". X, Y, and Z are things we can track to a fairly decent degree. Things like DPS output, ease of play, synergy with other classes, etc. Therye more concrete and things we can address and change. They also dont resort to name calling or impuning the character of the Devs or SE. Theyre not calling SE evil P.o.S cause they made changes to bard. It's understood that SE is attempting to fix or address a balance issue and that it may not have came out the way it was hoped. Devs are human afterall. This is feedback, and proper critiquing.

This is what were seeing "Oh My god! How dare SE and the devs put crap on the Mogstation! I should get it for free. I deserve it cause I pay a sub. This is them being greedy as F and trying to take my money from me! Screw this! They should immediately change mogstation and give me that mount. Just Horrible that they want to charge money for this. Greed jerks!"

That isnt feedback. That isnt critiquing. While it is voicing a person's dissatisfaction with something, its done in the worst way possible and makes no effort to udnerstand SEs position and resorts to name calling and placing hte worst possible characterization on SE, and demands a solution that is purely for the benefit of the person speaking. That isnt a critique. its a rant. Its a outpouring of vitriol and anger. And its entitlement based on the conclusion that the person Deserves something more for simply being a standard paying customer.

You want to seriously discuss pricing and what shows up on mogstation, thats fine. But it requires a reasonable position as well as understanding and debating counter points. If people just clutch to "My opinion and point is the only correct one and if you disagree, youre just licking SEs boot", well that's not gonna fly with a lot of people and wont solve a damn thing. SE should ignore anyone who comes in here raving about "They deserve x, y, or z from the mogstation cause they have a sub." because it isnt feedback.

[SamRF]

If someone says that they've bought the game/expansion or paid the subscription fee and uses that as an argument for why they should not have to make additional purchase, then they are making an entitlement claim.

An argument for why something should exist is only necessary if it doesn't exist. The store already exists.

Well, your opinion is wrong because the very first post in this thread stated the point:

So it is very much on point to argue if that sense of entitlement is misplaced (not that it's always the case).

I still see it as an opinion and feedback. The feedback and criticism is that there shouldn't be such Cash Shop in a game where you already pay for sub, and if there is, they are dissatisfied.

I get that it technically is a sense of entitlement, but what I'm basically trying to say is that the counterargument of "you aren't entitled to anything" as response to this is pointless, what's the even the point of giving your opinion or feedback then? You can ultimately respond that way to any kind of criticism. SE does what it wants in the end of the day and everybody is aware of that, the only way we "threaten" SE is by leaving the game, if its shown that we are dissatisfied there's a higher chance we leave the game.

You get what I mean? It's not so much about the technicality of this being about entitlement or not, but rather what is or isn't a productive argument for the discussion.

[SamRF]

The issue is were not seeing feedback or critiques. Were seeing a lot of misplaced rage and demands and bad faith argumentation. Feedback and criticism require some thought and care. For example, Good feed back would be like this: "The recent changes to the bard class dont work and are resulting in x, y, and z". X, Y, and Z are things we can track to a fairly decent degree. Things like DPS output, ease of play, synergy with other classes, etc. Therye more concrete and things we can address and change. They also dont resort to name calling or impuning the character of the Devs or SE. Theyre not calling SE evil P.o.S cause they made changes to bard. It's understood that SE is attempting to fix or address a balance issue and that it may not have came out the way it was hoped. Devs are human afterall. This is feedback, and proper critiquing.

This is what were seeing "Oh My god! How dare SE and the devs put crap on the Mogstation! I should get it for free. I deserve it cause I pay a sub. This is them being greedy as F and trying to take my money from me! Screw this! They should immediately change mogstation and give me that mount. Just Horrible that they want to charge money for this. Greed jerks!"

That isnt feedback. That isnt critiquing. While it is voicing a person's dissatisfaction with something, its done in the worst way possible and makes no effort to udnerstand SEs position and resorts to name calling and placing hte worst possible characterization on SE, and demands a solution that is purely for the benefit of the person speaking. That isnt a critique. its a rant. Its a outpouring of vitriol and anger. And its entitlement based on the conclusion that the person Deserves something more for simply being a standard paying customer.

You want to seriously discuss pricing and what shows up on mogstation, thats fine. But it requires a reasonable position as well as understanding and debating counter points. If people just clutch to "My opinion and point is the only correct one and if you disagree, youre just licking SEs boot", well that's not gonna fly with a lot of people and wont solve a damn thing. SE should ignore anyone who comes in here raving about "They deserve x, y, or z from the mogstation cause they have a sub." because it isnt feedback.

I agree with that it isn't a good way to give feedback, but it seems like that's unfortunately how it's usually done in gaming forums. At the moment we can't really expect for people to act civil on internet and be respectful with the formulation of their arguments.

It's still feedback though, or rather a message that is being sent by a paying player. I understand however what you mean and why you would respond harshly to that.

In all honesty though I'm still not in favor of defending SE or any game developer for that matter to extend as some do in this thread. I believe a critical playerbase is better for the game's development than a supportive one, especially regarding consumer friendly practices.

[linay]

I still see it as an opinion and feedback. The feedback and criticism is that there shouldn't be such Cash Shop in a game where you already pay for sub, and if there is, they are dissatisfied.

That's fine, but people can have a differing opinion and that's also giving feedback.

I get that it technically is a sense of entitlement, but what I'm basically trying to say is that the counterargument of "you aren't entitled to anything" as response to this is pointless, what's the even the point of giving your opinion or feedback then? You can ultimately respond that way to any kind of criticism. SE does what it wants in the end of the day and everybody is aware of that, the only way we "threaten" SE is by leaving the game, if its shown that we are dissatisfied there's a higher chance we leave the game.

You get what I mean? It's not so much about the technicality of this being about entitlement or not, but rather what is or isn't a productive argument for the discussion.

Well, first of all, being entitled is not necessarily a bad thing. The issue is what you are entitled to. So, I would not say that "you aren't entitled to anything," but I would say that "you aren't entitled to everything" just because you paid for the game and subscription.

At the very least, it deals directly with the stated reason for the feedback in the opening post.

[Gula]

There is really nothing to see here.
This type of topic always shows up every time there is a new items on the Mog Station
This doomsayer topic will be here again when next Chinese/Korean regional item on the Mog Station

Going to patiently wait for the next time one appears for this convenient post and for every argument here to basically say everything that will be said in the next.

[Moonlite]

You want to seriously discuss pricing and what shows up on mogstation, thats fine. But it requires a reasonable position as well as understanding and debating counter points. If people just clutch to "My opinion and point is the only correct one and if you disagree, youre just licking SEs boot", well that's not gonna fly with a lot of people and wont solve a damn thing. SE should ignore anyone who comes in here raving about "They deserve x, y, or z from the mogstation cause they have a sub." because it isnt feedback.

This has been brushed off into the server limitations. Is it reasonable to charge for each character? How does SE pricing structure for mogstation really work in the world of video games? Let us use the spriggan mount which is account wide. It is 24 USD now while taken by itself that doesn't seem bad. Let us use another SE game that comes out in a couple days FF7 checking the usa best buy quickly shows that you can get a whole game for 59.99. So just over double. Now let us look at emotes for a second 7 USD single character. I don't play fortnite so this is just stuff I grabbed from a quick check. Please feel free to correct me. An emote using a bestbuy card is 8 USD. But from what I can see is that it doesn't have any account restrictions. Epics FAQ is not the most helpful. Also I used that an example since as far I can tell it is cosmetic cash shop and no monthly sub. I do know it has a season pass system though. Also let us be honest they are probably paying for way more infrastructure then SE. In a bubble the cash shop might not look so bad. Looking at it from a video game industry it is better then loot boxes. Anything is better then loot boxes. It has a lot of room for improvement.



Now the other thing that gets glossed over(ignored). We can agree that they have said that some content limitations is staffing. The mogsation defense is that it wouldn't exist they are a separate team. Yet they have a secondary group of employee's that have at least some skill to work within the confines of the game. While not trying to fill all the needed positions on the main team. This is even if you truly believe that the cash shop is a completely different team and doesn't drain any resources away from main development. Maybe you have seen something I haven't, but I don't believe the cash shop team works in a bubble and doesn't drain resources from the main team.


The "licking SEs boot" is amusing. A lot of stuff posted seems to be in a video game bubble as if it shouldn't have to be compared to pricing of other games and SE shouldn't have to try to maintain an equal product of other companies of the same stature. What are people suppose to think when you see, it is the players fault, it is optional, or it is the companies fault. It is never poor planning or execution of the current production team we should send them a birthday gift. What are people suppose to think when they see that?

[linay]

A lot of stuff posted seems to be in a video game bubble as if it shouldn't have to be compared to pricing of other games and SE shouldn't have to try to maintain an equal product of other companies of the same stature.

A comparison is useless because the Mog Station is about FFXIV. Pricing for Fortnite emote is irrelevant because you can't use it in FFXIV. If there are enough people who would buy at SE's prices, then there is no reason for them to change it outside of sales period.