Some views on DPS balance that everyone cares about

[Myon88]

Yeah I'm not sure if you realize the fact that having no control over it is a downside, not a benefit to the skill. It just goes to show how you little you understand about its value as 'utility'.

The funny thing is, if you could control when you cast it, you would have a much stronger argument about it being something that summoner should be taxed for. If that was the case, they would actually be able to use it effectively in fights and sync it with mechanics. Instead, you pretty much just activate phoenix for dps, and leave it to chance whether you need the heal at that time (spoiler: you don't).

Does that sound nice to you? Hey, I'll swap it for bloodbath, deal? I mean, you don't actually think having to manually activate a skill like bloodbath is some kind of huge game changing difference right? Are rotations so taxing that a little bit of extra thought to press an ogcd feels like a huge source of stress? Don't be silly, it's one button. If that was the price you had to pay to get separate control over phoenix's heal, every summoner would pay it on the spot.

Don't get me started on how all the summoner skill consolidations like that in Shadowbringers actually make your life harder, not easier. Now when I saw the news back in 2019 I already thought it was a bad joke, but never in my wildest dreams did I imagine someone would try and spin it as an upside, haha.

[Renkei]

Yeah I'm not sure if you realize the fact that having no control over it is a downside, not a benefit to the skill. It just goes to show how you little you understand about its value as 'utility'.

The funny thing is, if you could control when you cast it, you would have a much stronger argument about it being something that summoner should be taxed for. If that was the case, they would actually be able to use it effectively in fights and sync it with mechanics. Instead, you pretty much just activate phoenix for dps, and leave it to chance whether you need the heal at that time (spoiler: you don't).

Does that sound nice to you? Hey, I'll swap it for bloodbath, deal? I mean, you don't actually think having to manually activate a skill like bloodbath is some kind of huge game changing difference right? Are rotations so taxing that a little bit of extra thought to press an ogcd feels like a huge source of stress? Don't be silly, it's one button. If that was the price you had to pay to get separate control over phoenix's heal, every summoner would pay it on the spot.

Don't get me started on how all the summoner skill consolidations like that in Shadowbringers actually make your life harder, not easier. Now when I saw the news back in 2019 I already thought it was a bad joke, but never in my wildest dreams did I imagine someone would try and spin it as an upside, haha.

Because you clearly haven't been listening to my point. Actually It's Two Buttons, Because Job's have to use Blood-bath and Second wind just to output 500 HPS.

You DO NOT even have to time it and accounting for over-heals you are still outputting 800 eHPS, which is higher then any job that has reactive self healing among DPS.

I still find it funny that i have to explain it 3 different ways in order for it to make sense, In normal play without going out of your way for it, summoners are outputting this kind of HPS.

Sometimes these heals are game changing, but it's not like you would know anything about that because you have all your HPS built into your rotation with what you said earlier "The same Complexity as Dragoon."

I never even said anything about making it a separate button for summoner i was just explaining a fact of it providing crazy amounts of HPS.

I have explained when it works it works and when it doesn't it doesn't, Obviously a person cannot explain that with any less complexity yet you claim that i cannot understand that as a utility when you don't understand clearly the utility of NOT HAVING TO PRESS 2 BUTTONS TO GET FREE HEALS DURING THE ENTIRE FIGHT.

Circular Argumenst, Ad Hominem, Ad Populum, Red Herring, Straw Maning, base rating, applied Slippery slope and False equivalence. I am waiting to see what Logical Fallacy you land on next i don't see how you even get likes with this kettle logic.

[Myon88]

Because you clearly haven't been listening to my point.

Yeah maybe listen to yourself first, you're just repeating the same tired old points in louder and louder voices.

I never even said anything about making it a separate button for summoner i was just explaining a fact of it providing crazy amounts of HPS.

SMN has on average the highest HPS for NOT having to worry about using it as an extra ability, you don't need to go out of the way to provide good HPS
doesn't effect your weaves since its kitted into summoners rotation.

Other jobs have to use Cool-downs to even get 500 HPS while SMN has it baked into their rotation

Look, you can't even get your own story straight. Your complaint about it providing 'crazy amounts of HPS' is directly tied to it being an automatic ability. You need to think about the implications of what you say. And you never answered my question about why it not being an extra ability is such a big deal too. Is pressing an extra button that hard? I don't know about you, but it's a meaningless distinction to me. You could give my rotation 10 more buttons and I wouldn't even sweat.

And I'm sorry to disappoint you but even when 'it works', it does nothing because healers don't plan around such a piddly situational regen. That and literally no one cares about raw HPS coming from a dps job unless they're scraping the bottom of the barrel, hard. That goes for the other guy replying too. There is only one source of caster HPS that makes a difference and that's vercure, because it's on demand and upfront instead of a regen.

I could go into the nuances of raid healing and why upfront heals are more valuable than regens in emergency situations (where utility is most valuable), but I think that's going to fly over your head too.

[Renkei]

Yeah maybe listen to yourself first, you're just repeating the same tired old points in louder and louder voices.

I've Replied to every single position you have took in every single reply i have given to you and the only excuse you come up with instead of defending those positions when questioned is "you aren't listening to my point."

You clearly as just projecting.

I didn't answer that question because it's an obvious straw man, you think I'm stupid enough to run into a silly straw man argument you place for me? Clearly it isn't something that should be included in summoners kit, or should be tuned down, i was just pointing out a fact not an opinion, you can argue your position all you want but you are a bias observer to this, you can deny all you want that the Regen isn't OP, when in fact when you account for over-heal it still out performs all other DPS jobs at self healing besides Dancer even then dancer has to actively heal itself.

I can't get my story straight? Didn't you argue earlier that it shouldn't be an extra button and now you are saying if they changed it to an extra button it'd be no sweat to you?

I'm curious why you think the concepts of raid healing are above my head you have a lot of explaining to do considering and judging by your behavior you aren't as experienced as your facade indicates.
Of course direct healing is more valuable when you need healing on demand, but Regen's are more valuable when you do not need healing on demand - you can make any statement in anyway to try making it look like your right or smart but that statement further proves my earlier points that i asserted, I have decades experience main healing in other games, that's why I'm not all egotistical after clearing a single cycle.

My whole point is every single position you take you are arguing ad hominem, you cannot argue any of my point's I've challenged you too and all you do is try hanging your position over me instead of arguing facts, if you are willing to bend facts around to your liking to make it look like your position is better you clearly are bias, You claim i keep repeating tired old points, even if that is true, you are the one who is clearly only getting louder, your behavior is fitting of a tyrant.

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It's not as simple as just making [Faster = Stronger] It's more of an issue of balancing [Risk = Reward], I understand that MCH has Heat Blast and Auto Crossbow, which inflates these numbers, other jobs also have abilities that inflate it to, Everything is very complex and situational in life there isn't anything that is simple.

[Lastelli]

It's not as simple as just making [Faster = Stronger] It's more of an issue of balancing [Risk = Reward], I understand that MCH has Heat Blast and Auto Crossbow, which inflates these numbers, other jobs also have abilities that inflate it to, Everything is very complex and situational in life there isn't anything that is simple.

It's that simple, really. Risk is evaluated considering the toolkit as a whole. It's entirely possible to create slow and risky jobs (BLM) and fast but safe jobs (MCH). So at the end of the day, apm means absolutely nothing without context and I don't even know why you brought the topic up in the first place. In fact, apm is one of the things that has the least impact on jobs difficulty. Timers management and uptime (for melees and blm) are way more impactful.

Sorry, but the way you argue about these things leads me to believe that you have very limited experience in savage or ultimate prog and jobs optimization in this game, especially when it comes to healing...the whole EF discussion is just silly.

[Nemekh]

Sorry, but the way you argue about these things leads me to believe that you have very limited experience in savage or ultimate prog and jobs optimization in this game, especially when it comes to healing...the whole EF discussion is just silly.

Looking historical records up you're not incorrect.

[Renkei]

Looking historical records up you're not incorrect.

Looking at Historical Records you didn't even start Raiding until Creator Tier in Heavenward, There is no Historical records judging people off Parses and logs is exactly the toxic kind of nonsense that this community doesn't need, You can't prove someone is a good player by just looking at the logs considering the current system doesn't have ARR End-game, Just because someone has parse logs in a game doesn't mean that suddenly makes them higher up in some kinda Hierarchy that doesn't exist you people are clearly just power hungry and need to grow up.