Revelations from Patch 5.2

[Alleluia]

So, about the WoL's nature and 5.2:

I get that seeing a star shower-esque thing is supposed to act as a power trigger for those with ancient soul fragments and it makes them able to hear Hydaelyn. But I've rewatched the opening scene of ARR multiple times to be sure and we hear Hydaelyn's voice in our "dream" without a star shower having occurred. We don't see a star shower til we get our first crystal (and then we immediately see Hydaelyn herself). So... that's interesting?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the above would only apply to 2.0 WoLs, right? If I remember right, the 1.0 WoLs do experience a star shower vision as soon as they get off their carriage/boat.

Regarding G'raha and 5.2:

I am worried for my boy, but I am also heartened to hear that the JP version apparently refers to his "stake in the outcome" in english as actually being "his wish". Which is in turn referring to the desire to follow us back to the source and continue having adventures. Which I am all for, and really hope happens.

I still think he's gonna pull a "rejoining" of his soul to that of G'raha on the source (ie Ardbert and WoL) and then he'll wake up on the source with memories intact from his Crystal Exarch self. Its the best character outcome, as far as I can see. Crystal Exarch's experience continues on and is not lost, and source!G'raha doesn't get deprived of a future of helping his hero which, if CE!G'raha is anything to go by, is exactly what he really wants anyhow. Sealing himself in the tower was a sacrifice, not a preference, after all.

If the above is the ultimate result for G'raha, that would make him the aetherically densest soul on the Source, which I'm sure will have *some* kind of consequences. And now I'm back to worrying. lol

Regarding Elidibus's plans:

Am I the only one who thinks its possible Elidibus' gambit is going to work? Just, story-wise, it makes sense for him to have some kind of victory leading into 6.0. And it'd be weird for the plot to end up being "Lohgriff attempted a flood of light; it was thwarted by Minfilia. Emet-selch attempted a flood of light; it was thwarted by WoL. Elidibus attempted a flood of light; it was thwarted by WoL." Like, either succeed this time or stop proving the definition of insanity.

[Alleo]

So, about the WoL's nature and 5.2:

I get that seeing a star shower-esque thing is supposed to act as a power trigger for those with ancient soul fragments and it makes them able to hear Hydaelyn. But I've rewatched the opening scene of ARR multiple times to be sure and we hear Hydaelyn's voice in our "dream" without a star shower having occurred. We don't see a star shower til we get our first crystal (and then we immediately see Hydaelyn herself). So... that's interesting?

About your points

Well we also have to remember that this was Elidibus doing. I am not sure if we can trust him on anything. Urianger even states that he lies if it further his goals. Honestly I am not even sure if that was Hydealyns voice at all. It sounded so far away so strange. I wonder if maybe some people are just born with active echos? Seemingly Zenos has dreamed about a destroyed world for a long time, maybe we too already had the echo for quite a bit.

Hydealyn only talking to us directly after getting our first crystal makes imo more sense than her just somehow turning people into WoLs if they get the echo. We had to prove that we are able to be WoLs by getting a crystal (just like Ardbert and his friends) so I doubt that those people are all just WoLs.

Regarding Elidibus's plans:

Am I the only one who thinks its possible Elidibus' gambit is going to work? Just, story-wise, it makes sense for him to have some kind of victory leading into 6.0. And it'd be weird for the plot to end up being "Lohgriff attempted a flood of light; it was thwarted by Minfilia. Emet-selch attempted a flood of light; it was thwarted by WoL. Elidibus attempted a flood of light; it was thwarted by WoL." Like, either succeed this time or stop proving the definition of insanity.

The problem with that is that a flood of light would destroy everything we have worked for. And would make no sense gameplay wise because we do need to be able to visit the first. I also believe that it would be way too dark for this story. Everyone we have known, every beast tribe we have helped, all the stuff with Eden or Nier would be gone. And Elidibus also needs a desaster on the source first otherwise a rejoining wont happen.

What should realistically happen on the source that will be calamity level? Black rose is something Zenos does not want to use, normal war wont bring a calamity of light. So I doubt that his plan will work.

I think that us being more active and going to them will stop it. Or maybe (since he does not like us) he underestimated the new "WoLs" believing them to betray us..

[WrenElessedil]

Well we also have to remember that this was Elidibus doing. I am not sure if we can trust him on anything. Urianger even states that he lies if it further his goals. Honestly I am not even sure if that was Hydealyns voice at all. It sounded so far away so strange. I wonder if maybe some people are just born with active echos? Seemingly Zenos has dreamed about a destroyed world for a long time, maybe we too already had the echo for quite a bit.

Hydealyn only talking to us directly after getting our first crystal makes imo more sense than her just somehow turning people into WoLs if they get the echo. We had to prove that we are able to be WoLs by getting a crystal (just like Ardbert and his friends) so I doubt that those people are all just WoLs.

Zenos's Dreams

I think Zenos is just a special case here due to being Emet-Selch's grandson.

[QT_Melon]

About your points

Well we also have to remember that this was Elidibus doing. I am not sure if we can trust him on anything. Urianger even states that he lies if it further his goals. Honestly I am not even sure if that was Hydealyns voice at all. It sounded so far away so strange. I wonder if maybe some people are just born with active echos? Seemingly Zenos has dreamed about a destroyed world for a long time, maybe we too already had the echo for quite a bit.

Hydealyn only talking to us directly after getting our first crystal makes imo more sense than her just somehow turning people into WoLs if they get the echo. We had to prove that we are able to be WoLs by getting a crystal (just like Ardbert and his friends) so I doubt that those people are all just WoLs.

About the bold part

That actually would make no sense whatsoever if it was a "Fake voice". Meaning that the entire scene was about the starshower AWAKENING the abilities. A fake voice wouldn't prove this. Because then it would be a fake voice, and people freaking out over illusions and everyone was faked out. Therefore it wouldn't prove that the starshowers ARE a big trigger for echo awakening. Could he be lying about other things? Sure. I just don't think Hydaelyn's voice would necessarily be a lie since that was to help the audience realize that the starshower was the trigger

[Alleo]

About the bold part

That actually would make no sense whatsoever if it was a "Fake voice". Meaning that the entire scene was about the starshower AWAKENING the abilities. A fake voice wouldn't prove this. Because then it would be a fake voice, and people freaking out over illusions and everyone was faked out. Therefore it wouldn't prove that the starshowers ARE a big trigger for echo awakening. Could he be lying about other things? Sure. I just don't think Hydaelyn's voice would necessarily be a lie since that was to help the audience realize that the starshower was the trigger

Well Elidibus already said that it was his illusion so I guess it would also be easy to fake her voice too. I mean the only think it awakens is the echo, which we now know is not from her. I doubt that she just suddenly makes anyone her WoL just by hearing her.

[QT_Melon]

The illusion is a separate issue. Yes, he created an illusion. That's not in dispute. However, saying the voice is faked completely destroys the point written in the story. If anything it shows he isn't the only one using said illusion. This isn't about whether or not I like Hydaelyn or like the Ascians/Zodiark.

This is simply stating these points in the story were created for the specific purpose of confirming the starshower and what it does. That means you have to let go of the idea of "oh this an Asican, therefore a liar and fake voice" and looking at the evidence in an objective manner.

Also hopefully again I was able to get this image gallery correctly as my former post apparently only posted 2 images?

This album contains images from the latest dungeon and a couple from the Hinterlands

I forgot to mention obvious Sharlayan link cuz of the Shire gear and similar structures. But I also mentioned how much the Cystarium also has a lot of these assets that are similar

https://imgur.com/a/ttM2iIZ - also apologies for my HUD in some of these and my character, when I get that dungeon again I'll be happy to make a cleaner album


Another observation. I kind of find it interesting that those that followed Venat - didn't mention tempering. I mean they mention the council being stubborn but noticed they didn't account for possible tempering?


https://imgur.com/a/C9DKA5g




Maybe reading too much into it, but I wonder if the summoning of primals was just such a new concept they aren't familiar to what happens like we do now?

[YianKutku]

One thing I've been wondering is whether it's significant that Elidibus is saying all these people are now Warriors of Light.

As in, we, as player characters, got called the "Warrior of Light" due to reminding people of the heroes of the Seventh Calamity. And those heroes (which might have been us, but I'll assume we're new adventurers for simplicity) are called "Warriors of Light" because they were backlit by a bright glow and that's all everyone can remember about them.

And when we went to the First, we were called the Warrior of Darkness, despite doing what we always do on the Source, and also using the Blessing of Light to deal with the First's aetherial issues. This is because we reminded people of the legend of the Warrior of Darkness (which hasn't really been explained).

So all these titles are given to us by people, rather than by cosmic law or by reference to what we do and how we do it.

Therefore, what significance is there in Elidibus calling the new Echo-blessed "Warriors of Light", as opposed to "Warriors of Darkness"? Or even "Warriors of Fire", or "Warriors of God King Moggle Mog XII, may his pom be forever fluffy"? Is it going to cause a re-tilting towards Light just because of a label?

[Mansion]

So all these titles are given to us by people, rather than by cosmic law or by reference to what we do and how we do it.

Therefore, what significance is there in Elidibus calling the new Echo-blessed "Warriors of Light", as opposed to "Warriors of Darkness"? Or even "Warriors of Fire", or "Warriors of God King Moggle Mog XII, may his pom be forever fluffy"? Is it going to cause a re-tilting towards Light just because of a label?

I think Elidibus is thinking a step beyond that. There is no real meanign in having the WoL-normies-army per se, but rather how these people are easily manipulated into his agenda. I don't think he wants to do anything aether-excess related on the First, but rather for our WoD character out of his pedestal so that we are not trusted to interfere in his next actions. With a large number of persons that believe they are as "special" as we are, we are no longer seen as the hero to whom people will turn to.

If that makes sense ? haha

[Alleo]

Therefore, what significance is there in Elidibus calling the new Echo-blessed "Warriors of Light", as opposed to "Warriors of Darkness"? Or even "Warriors of Fire", or "Warriors of God King Moggle Mog XII, may his pom be forever fluffy"? Is it going to cause a re-tilting towards Light just because of a label?

I think the problem is that thanks to Elidibus speech these people might believe that they are WoLs and that they need to protect the people at all costs. These people were so mindless in their goal that they risked the stability of the Crystarium for it. (Man Elidibus must have +1000 in speech) Most of them then were so afraid by just seeing a simple star shower...I doubt that they would have stayed alive long enough. But people like that who just throw away their current lifestyle to pursue something like that could be dangerous. I mean we started out as simple adventurers too. We did not (as far as we know) leave our old life behind because we were called WoLs and thus need to save the world. We just went out and helped people because we are nice like that. And throught a lot of quests we earned the title WoL, not only from the people but from Hydealyn too.

It could be that he believes that he has them that deep in his pockets that they would even go against us. (Which I would find unbelievable...we were the ones that brought back the night)

With a large number of persons that believe they are as "special" as we are, we are no longer seen as the hero to whom people will turn to.

If that makes sense ? haha

The problem with that is: People did not know that we were special when we came here. We earned it. Those people still have to slay enormous beasts and save their worlds to be even near our status. And as we see with the two soldiers at the end, they do care about us and our opinions. Of course that can all change but honestly they are still just low level adventurers at that point. We should have no problem dealing with them and I cant just see the situation Elidibus creates that would turn all those people against us. (But I do wonder why they were so eager to take up the names of WoLs instead of being called WoDs..after all.the Light still did destroy most of their land..)