It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Fland]

But you can survive fighting a primal if you glamour a frog suit onto your armor. Glamour exists in setting.

They even come up in the msq now and then like when M'naago glamours the flag on the top of the big bridge in the Fringes to make the imperial forces think the Rebels have already taken it, tricking them into retreating.

And even then, is fighting a primal in a frog suit really any more silly than tanking Susano in the Shisui gear from the same level?

If we really want to be realistic, when a 15-foot primal swing a giant magical sword at you or blast you with huge pillar of laser, wearing a frog suit or an armor will have little difference lol.

[SturmChurro]

Well, being multiplayer, the game IS reality, to some extent.
If I make Sturm Churro feel uncomfortable, there is a good chance that I make the player behind her feel uncomfortable too.
So, yes: our characters are extensions of ourselves, our conduit through which we interact with this, shall we call it: "fantasy world".

Personally speaking, I give Ifalna a somewhat different character, different likes and dislikes compared to my own. Makes roleplaying more interesting that way. I am already "me" IRL, I like to try to be s/o else in a fantasy world like this one.

No, I only get mad when I am personally threatened. Like my account is threatened, it's the reason I hate mentors. I never get uncomfortable. Insult my character all you want, say my glam is ugly - If you do that though, you better not also have an ugly glam! I will critique your glam right back!

[Gula]

If we really want to be realistic, when a 15-foot primal swing a giant magical sword at you or blast you with huge pillar of laser, wearing a frog suit or an armor will have little difference lol.

I remember discussion of God Eater's character design from the crossover with Tales of Zesteria. It was impractical, and in one case literal bikini gear. But because of the pretext of how armor is useless in their world, bikini it was.



JRPGs have seldom been about practicality for main characters.

[Joven]

I stopped posting because I thought this thread was finally dying out, but it's grown 37 pages since last I was here. I guess people can't just leave well enough alone.

You cannot control what a player chooses to see on their personal display. Only Squeenix has that authority and even they are limited in the case of mods.

Asking for an optional feature in a video game is not a form of bigotry. Stop trying to create a false sense of moral righteousness. Even if someone did use this feature because they are bigoted it wouldn't matter because this is a video game. Real people are not being harmed or condemned because of it.

[Granyala]

And even then, is fighting a primal in a frog suit really any more silly than tanking Susano in the Shisui gear from the same level?

Ok, I concede that round to you. No way to argue about that one.

That is true, and I do think ps4 would be the major limiting factor from a technical standpoint regarding this option, and making it fuction as a basic toggle. That is why I think for the feature to be added it would have to pretty basic all or nothing and the preset outfit has to be something simple, and not very selective.

My dear you are misunderstanding two fundamental things.
PS4 modding BY THE USER may be very difficult to impossible because the USER cannot access the game files like on PC.

It's absolutely no problem for SE to implement the toggle, they can access the files anytime they want.

No, I only get mad when I am personally threatened. Like my account is threatened, it's the reason I hate mentors. I never get uncomfortable. Insult my character all you want, say my glam is ugly - If you do that though, you better not also have an ugly glam! I will critique your glam right back!

I'm pretty sure were I to make explicit remarks regarding your character, you will feel uncomfortable enough to report me. I don't have to threaten you personally in order to evoke an emotional response.

[SturmChurro]

I'm pretty sure were I to make explicit remarks regarding your character, you will feel uncomfortable enough to report me. I don't have to threaten you personally in order to evoke an emotional response.

Nope! My viera is HOT as heck! Make the comments and I would consider them compliments. I have been sent PMs in game, a decent few actually, I just think those guys are....weird never reported a single person in-game though. Not once. Still don't know how.

[Awha]

Ok, I concede that round to you. No way to argue about that one.



My dear you are misunderstanding two fundamental things.
PS4 modding BY THE USER may be very difficult to impossible because the USER cannot access the game files like on PC.

It's absolutely no problem for SE to implement the toggle, they can access the files anytime they want.


I'm pretty sure were I to make explicit remarks regarding your character, you will feel uncomfortable enough to report me. I don't have to threaten you personally in order to evoke an emotional response.

I do understand, I am just do not like speaking in absolutes when I do not fully understand the situation, I general reaction that it would be a 100% possible for SE to make such a toggle, and from a user standpoint I also thought it would be fairly easy to add. Though when people mentioned performance or much work it would require, plus possible console limitations I did not 100% know since I do not work at SE on FFXIV.

Though it is good to know that my assumption regarding on the technical aspect this feature would not be all that difficult to add. Just boils down to an other issues such as man power, and general desire on SE part due to whatever issues thet may come about it due to the personal reaction and the PR it would get. I often forget this is the game where we had some guy put fanfeast on blast because of things they saw that they did not agree with.

Know you did not aim your last part at me, but the few colorful remarks and requests I have gotten in came made me laugh. Generally rude comments do not phase me, it is when people pay me the "awe your lala is cute" or "Cool outfit." I find those creepy and uncomfortable. Though I think that has more to do with me that I rather be told to go f--- myself verse you look rather nice in a video game.

[Ivellior]

Several comments throughout this thread have been more in favor of a discrete option to discriminate glamours rather than one that simply deactivated the glamour feature client side. That is what I was addressing, and the OP is a heavy user of the glamour system, so it is not unreasonable to read that it is implicit in the OP's remarks that they mean to have the ability to individually censor glamours.

Only a tiny minority of the posters asked for a person-specific glamour blacklist feature. The feature request is for a toggle to turn off all glamours. That is specifically what the OP asked, which is a perfectly reasonable request. Changing the OP (and the features request) because of a tiny minority of posters is disingenuous.

There isn't a reason to implement this filter that stands up to logic and scrutiny. No one can tell me why they want it other than because they are offended; which is just a feeling.

If you are talking about a character-specific glamour blacklist, this argument makes sense, but it's not necessarily true. I really annoys me to see people in metalic dyed frog suits when doing instanced content. I find it grating and distracting enough to want to turn off all glamours. If that means I'm offended I'll just take it as such.

And even if they do add a character-specific glamour blacklist feature (which, again, is not what the people are asking), I still personally believe that you overly sensitive on the matter. It's just a tool/feature to make the player's experience better just like the black list feature. I can totally understand how annoying someone would feel be when he reached the fight with hades (at the epic climax of the story) and is greeted by a tank wearing a metallic yellow frog suit.

If you feel that a tool is bad because it might be potientially used for an "evil" reason, then you might as well eat with your hands since knives can be used to kill people.

Implementing such a feature is contrary to the direction developers want to go, as is implicit in by Yoshi's remarks while talking about removal if gender restrictions on gear, quoted here:

"... I was heading to the office on a Saturday and I saw a situation that made me very sad. I was trying to go into the office and I was waiting at a red light. I saw a high schooler coming from the other side of the road in their school uniform. It seemed that they were biologically male at birth but they were wearing a sailor fuku, which is traditionally female attire. In Japanese high schools, there’s more and more schools that are accommodating for freedom of not being restricted to a specific gender for your uniform...That person probably wanted to present the gender they identified with in their heart...On the other side of the road was a mother and a daughter. The daughter was perhaps 5 years old. As soon as the mother saw the high schooler, she shielded her daughter as if she didn’t want her daughter to see. The high schooler must have been very hurt. Situations like these still happen and there’s areas where there’s not as much understanding.

We need to see more change in the values people have, and we need to consider for Final Fantasy XIV how we push forward in-game and how we represent it."
-Naoki Yoshida (interviewed by Heather Alexandra)

1. Heather Alexandra is from kokatu, a site that is widely known for lying and changing stories/interviews to match their political bias. Please provide the original japanese interview text.
2. If that was the dev vision those items wouldn't have been gender locked in the first place.

[Penthea]

This argument makes absolutely no sense. Does that mean if I turn off the battle effects on my client changes the vision of the devs? I mean it changes the way everyone does battle on my client? How about when I change the color of the name for players or friends. Suddenly all blue (other) player names are red, and all orange (friends) player names are white. Does that change the vision of the devs? Turning off glamours is the exact same thing.

Again you're willfully ignoring the difference between having options that make game performance smoother and making things easier to see, and something that has only a purely cosmetic use.

Following this logic, removing glamours alltogether is best way to uphold the vision of the devs. They made the new sets, according to their vision. If you change the appearance via glamour, doesn't that change the original vision?

No because we glam in to other gear that is approved by SE. All gear in the game is approved by SE, therefore every piece of gear is part of their vision.

And please don't argue that the glamoured items are made by the devs so it's fine. If you remove the glamours the previous items are still made by the devs.

While it is true that unglammed gear is obviously still part of SE's vision, you have to remember that the argument many here make in support of glam removal is that they think certain gear should not be part of that vision. In other words their personal vision for the game is at odds with SE's vision.

Glamours are made to enhance the player experience, just like dyes. The option to turn off glamours (or dyes) is also one to enhance the player experience. What is more that option does not even have an effect on the players who want to use/see glamours.

While turning off glams would be client side, the moment a person uploads screenshots or streams that content becomes public and therefore no longer client side. Just like how parsing is client side but the moment the results of those parses are uploaded to fflogs they no longer are.

Some players don't like the idea that another person can change how their character looks without their consent. You could say SE could forbid these uploads but lets be honest, they also forbid mod use and it's so easy to find evidence of it being uploaded as screenshots and streams.

Furthermore, and I mentioned this before, if glams simply default to unglammed combat gear, racial gear or AF gear you run the risk of essentially undressing characters, especially in the case of females. Sometimes people glam in a specific way to avoid a certain type of attention, and if glam removal reveals more skin than their own glam does then you are removing what little power they have to avoid this.

You may not be a creep who would take advantage of a situation like this, but someone else might and you can't guarantee that no one would abuse it. I explained in a lot of detail the sort of abuse I encountered due to female characters wearing revealing gear (for context this was during a time in WoW when transmog/glam did not exist and the player wore the gear purely because the stats were good, she did change her gear but it was too late by then because the damage had already been done).

While it's not common for this to occur at such a degree the point is that it does happen. I know that skimpy outfits are not and should not be treated as an invitation for certain comments, but you likely know that not everyone sees things this way. If glam removal comes to the game I personally would only be able to tolerate it if it puts players into modest outfits. I'm not comfortable with the idea of giving creeps a way to see something they normally would not be able to see.

And we know there are plenty of creeps around. The ban waves in Balmung related to erp with illegal connotations is quite famous in the community.

Can you explain me to me why if I change the player names colour from blue to green is acceptable and doesn't ask the devs to change their vision but changing the glamour does. Both options do the same thing. They replace one thing you see on your screen, (the player name / the player armor) with another. If you can turn off player names there is no reason you can't turn off player glamours.

You do not glam the colour of the text above your character's head. It is not something chosen in character creation, and it is not part of the glamming system. So in changing the colour of the text you are not removing the appearance of the physical preferences of another player character. Whether the text above their head is green, pink or whatever the character itself looks identical.

As mentioned before, this is a tool that is designed to make things easier to see. While it can be used purely for cosmetic personal preference, that does not negate the fact that it is there for an actual functional use that aids players to spot things. For example you can make people on your friends list have a different colour name. Glam removal's intended function is purely cosmetic. Depending on how SE decides how players would look unglammed it may even make it more difficult to spot players due to making them dress super similarly to one another.

As for being able to remove names above players/minions, that is to reduce clutter. Again, making things easier to see. Not a purely cosmetic feature. I personally have found it easier to interact with msq npcs on patch day since turning off names.

Changing the colour of the text or making it invisible is a purely ui option. Unglamming players is not a ui option, it's an environmental one.

At least try to put forward a logical argument.

This thread is littered with logical arguments but you choose to see them as illogical because it suits you. If anything this makes some who want glam removal appear unreasonable because they are refusing to see the differences between ui options and environmental ones, game performance options and cosmetic ones. Others turn a blind eye to the abuse that could happen with an option that can be used to put other players into skimpy clothing without their consent.

It would be better if everyone who supported glam removal acknowledged that it's not the same as ui options, and that it should be introduced in a manner that minimises potential abuse. SE would be more likely to take this thread seriously if players didn't flat ignore how it doesn't really resemble any options currently in the game, and that if done incorrectly it could result in harassment.

If you don't want the change just say:"I don't want it", "It hurts my feelings and I don't want it" "I want to be a prick and want to run around in neon glowing outfit like a globe". At least be honest.

The idea of glam removal doesn't hurt my feelings. I am in the privileged position of identifying with the gender and body I was born with, and I happen to like to dress in a way that society finds acceptable. I do not need the game in order to fully express myself because I have this freedom with ease in real life. However I have enough empathy to understand those who are not as privileged as I am, and for them games like FFXIV are some of the few places they can truly be themselves without worrying about getting shunned. I understand that glam removal for them could make them feel that the option allows people to remove traces of their existence. Which would especially sting if they feel that society in general would like to do this to them.

Glam removal doesn't personally sit right with me for three main reasons:

1: As mentioned before if glam removal can result in players being put into skimpier clothes than they glammed, this could result in harassment. I personally have seen harassment related to this get very far, and in WoW during when transmog/glam didn't exist I did have some weirdos say some creepy things to me just because the gear I happened to have on revealed skin in the places they liked. I would rather retain what little power I have to not catch the attention of these kinds of people. I'm fine with other players being in skimpy outfits. I just don't want to wear them. If glam removal comes to the game I would only be able to tolerate it if it puts players into modest clothing.

2: Glam removal is essentially whitewashing the game. Introducing this option would make others feel permitted to have other ways to control the appearance of other players. Requests of removing certain races (likely lalafells because for some reason cuteness gets a lot of hate), hairstyles, skin colours, mounts, minions...the list goes on. Give players an inch, they will want a mile.

Even if SE agree with the idea of glam removal, I can see them not introducing the option due to not wanting to seem like they permit players to erase the diversity of others. I don't think SE want to get known for permitting the censorship of players who did absolutely nothing wrong.

3: I think that glam removal goes against the spirit of being in a mmorpg. Part of their charm is that the worlds are real with real people inhabiting them. Removing the cosmetic options other players choose to have makes them closer to being npcs, and therefore less like a mmorpg filled with many different types of people.

"I want to be a prick and want to run around in neon glowing outfit like a globe"

And to dispell any notions that I am some dolt who just wants to glam with the intent of causing annoyance or distraction this is what I typically wear. As you can see it is lore appropriate and not flashy. I currently have a glam that matches the current event. Generally the only time I have a silly glam is during Halloween and that's usually the ghost costume or some ordinary gear with the pumpkin head. And it can be argued such glams are lore appropriate because these events in the game are part of the story.

Well that was a lot. I seriously doubt you will read most of it but at least it can never be said that I didn't try to explain anything

[Granyala]

Nope! My viera is HOT as heck! Make the comments and I would consider them compliments.

Well, Viera ears are almost as irresistable as Miqo'te ears.
...
Almost. :P

I am like you though, unless s/o insults me directly, I chuckle and move on.
Not everyone is like us though, so we do have to keep that in mind.