Limited Job #2: Beastmaster

[ReiMakoto]

Needlessly Condescending Snip

They didn't implement CHM as ALC, CHM was planned for heavensward meaning the two would have existed alongside each other. DRK as a Tank is also fine, its an iterpretation of the Job operating in normal gameplay which is still true to the jobs spirit. PVP and Crafting are fine, regular Jobs partake in PvP, crafting is not combat oriented and supplements the endgame. Blu does not interact with the endgame or even really with the economy, it takes away a class where other content like pvp does not. I never said it was a waste of rescources, at least not here, I said it was a waste of the JOB, dont put words into my mouth. You're creating a false equivalency with ALC and CHM, as they are not the same thing and can exist alongside each other, in FFT there are Alchemists that sell potions and the lot, and Chemists that are combat oriented. BLU in limited form is actively taking a job away from the main game, even with DRK they had their own interpretation of the gameplay that works and interacts with the games core. I have been constructive so many times on so many different threads its getting tiresome to repeat it all but I will I guess.

What I like:
Aesthetics: It nails blues vibe
Lore: Its interesting and unique and fits as a job
Gameplay*: Blue in DPS mimicry is a uniquely structured magical dps that plays differently to the other Mdps in the game, following a strict cooldown gated rotation with filler and odd burst windows, this fundamentally would be fun to play as a magical dps in endgame content.

* This gameplay portion is my main contention as it stands with limited jobs, there is no reason currently other than lack of desire by the dev team why DPS blue couldnt be usuable in the endgame, its relatively balanced, the only thing carrying its dps above heavensward jobs is final sting and the permanent devilment provided by aetherial mimicry, without these 2 it would be rought the same/less rdps than black mage.

What could be better:
Dual system, allowing those who like the limited to keep it but allowing blue in current content as stated above, as I stated there is no reason why it couldnt, the animations and rotation is all there, all thats needed is some number crunching. This is beneficial in two fold. It allows people who love the blue mage job to main it in game, and it would also get more people involved in blus side content. I know many who might be interested in doing blues limited content, but wont because its self contained, having unlimited blue and limited blue feed into each other increases the participation in both contents.
Tank and Healer mimicry: These are functional, but I would keep them to the limited version of the Job, theyre more like a "sure you could" but they simply arn't tanks and healers, and giving them more tanking and healing tools just adds more credence to the argument of why not unlimit it.

Subjective dislikes:
Running old content as your only core endgame is unappealing as hell for me, these fights are not fundamentally diferent from when you cleared them before, just now youre adjustng around a paper tank, a gcd only healer and the fact that some mechanics target randomly. Compounding this there is only incentive to clear the content once other than the weekly target, meaning its not replayable as an endgame.
Skills: RNG learn rates are simply bad, they were only employed in ffxi as a way of balancing the fact blu didnt have to pay for skills. I know its better now, still inexusable, skills are the means not the ends, and with how they currently are most skills that are learnt are broadly useless/ repeats.
Lack of Duty Finder: Majong has a duty finder, blue should as well, simple.


Finally, theres been constructive feedback since BLU has launched everywhere, just because you arn't seeing it doesn't mean we need to do this babies first breakdown here before asking the devs, we've been asking the devs for a long time. The core of my argument is theres no reason why it shouldn't exist, also you saying me comparing it to a challenge run isn't valid EDIT: I can't read you said it itsn't invalid, why you used a double negative im not sure but it threw my dyslexic brain, ignore this bit, why? You are tackling the content in a way it was not originally designed for using tools not necessarily optimised for the task, this applies to challenge runs and to blue. Overall your argumentation is weak comparing it to PvP and Crafting, as well as any other side content comparisons.

[Lambdafish]

Gameplay*: Blue in DPS mimicry is a uniquely structured magical dps that plays differently to the other Mdps in the game, following a strict cooldown gated rotation with filler and odd burst windows, this fundamentally would be fun to play as a magical dps in endgame content.

* This gameplay portion is my main contention as it stands with limited jobs, their is no reason currently other than lack of desire by the dev team why DPS blue couldnt be usuable in the endgame, its relatively balanced, the only thing carrying its dps above heavensward jobs is final sting and the permanent devilment provided by aetherial mimicry, without these 2 it would be rought the same/less rdps than black mage.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, the best I will say is that they could potentially salvage something from the playstyle of DPS BLU, but you do run into a few problems that the devs have stated as their lack of desire to make a "full" BLU. With an full BLU, do you need to learn the spells? Would I need to go out and collect the primal spells and everything else? If not, how do you justify the existance of both limited and unlimited BLU. Now if it was only unlimited BLU that existed (Highly unlikely right now), do we have a SMN problem where most of the iconic spells are gutted? The other option is gating unlimited BLU behind limited BLU, and I think that would cause more complaints than it is worth. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just think it's far more complicated and messy an implementation than is said here.

Skills: RNG learn rates are simply bad, they were only employed in ffxi as a way of balancing the fact blu didnt have to pay for skills. I know its better now, still inexusable, skills are the means not the ends, and with how they currently are most skills that are learnt are broadly useless/ repeats.

Learn rates are non existant now, and only serve as a motivator to run content synced. I like the trade off and it makes running synced extremely viable, something that I have been clamoring for since heavensward launched. For reference, learn rates are 100% if you run content synced.

I will agree to an extent about the repeats. The real difference comes from elemental affinities, which is something I would like to see expanded upon in the future, condensed libra is a start, but these skills are mostly designed for the masked carnival right now.

Lack of Duty Finder: Majong has a duty finder, blue should as well, simple.

I completely agree with you and there is a place for duty finder content in the current implementation of BLU (sorely needed too). Tying duty finder to the BLU log would help people find the parties they want, and awarding bonus currency through a BLU roulette would make running the content a lot better. I know thats not what you are asking for, but I'm just showing how the current implementation of content can support this request. Oh, and this becomes even better if BST becomes a limited job because it would be a roulette for both BLU and BST.

[ReiMakoto]

snip

Personally I have no issue gating Unlimited BLU behind Limited blu until you have finished the level 50 Job quests. At that point you have demonstrated you understand how the learning mechanic works and if the game tells you what spells are in the "Duty Set" and all spells in the "Duty Set" are learnable in overworld, dungeons, masked carnival and normal modes at 100% learn rate with levels attatched (for example protean wave level 62, if you learn it before hand you can use it on limited blue, but it wont be usuable sync'd below or simply below 62 on normal blue). Iconic spells needn't be cut by this either. This is admittedly more complex than normal jobs (barely but still) but it won't stop people doing it/not doing it, much like you can still see gladiators in the vault, or people who havent done any job quests at level 80. Rebranding to advanced jobs would also solve this issue.

Learn Rates still exist for overworld spells and are simply unecessary

Having the Duty Finder support limited and unlimited is something ive requested since day one. It shouldn't be limited to just blus though, you should be able to just tick a box that says "allow limited jobs" in your duty finder menu.

[Lambdafish]

Having the Duty Finder support limited and unlimited is something ive requested since day one. It shouldn't be limited to just blus though, you should be able to just tick a box that says "allow limited jobs" in your duty finder menu.

As someone who abused BLU to get moogle tomestones (>5min runs of AV), I would be very wary about allowing BLUs into regular DF. Do people get regular exp when running with BLUs? Rewards would have to be restricted in some way to prevent abuse, just like is the case with unsync, otherwise people would easily powerlevel by bringing a limited job to speedrun the content.

[ReiMakoto]

As someone who abused BLU to get moogle tomestones (>5min runs of AV), I would be very wary about allowing BLUs into regular DF. Do people get regular exp when running with BLUs? Rewards would have to be restricted in some way to prevent abuse, just like is the case with unsync, otherwise people would easily powerlevel by bringing a limited job to speedrun the content.

Given a regular AV run takes about 10mins or even less with a coordinated party, they could limit it to 1 LJ per party, it would still go quicker but not drastically and would help keep limited content alive, as I mentioned earlier dungeon balance is a joke especially the older the content gets, allowing 1 LJ per party wouldnt be too bad and could even incentivise people to partake it it.

[Lambdafish]

Given a regular AV run takes about 10mins or even less with a coordinated party, they could limit it to 1 LJ per party, it would still go quicker but not drastically and would help keep limited content alive, as I mentioned earlier dungeon balance is a joke especially the older the content gets, allowing 1 LJ per party wouldnt be too bad and could even incentivise people to partake it it.

I was the only LJ in the party......... BLU can kill the first and second boss in just a few hits with missile and tail screw, imagine you are a new player at level 48 and that happens.

[ReiMakoto]

I was the only LJ in the party......... BLU can kill the first and second boss in just a few hits with missile and tail screw.

Could just ban the instant deaths then, didn't realise both of those were susceptable given how many things arn't. Either way could be done.

Edit: given the speedrun of Aurum Vale is 4 mins with 4 blue mages going full cheese, I am doubt that it was sub 5 mins with 1, but with access to the doom skills it would make the run faster, but on 1 blue mage I can't see the clear time being signficantly faster when factoring in RNG, as those bosses die in a min or so anyway. And If I was a new player and saw that, it might encourage me to try out this limited job thing, then all of a sudden they like how blue mage plays and in our hypothetical earlier hits limited cap and has fun being a blue main who also does limited on the side

Edit2: Found a speedrun in 7 mins with only one blu, but that required cooldown mapping and pull sizes determined by the party, having it be random in df you wont get that

Edit3: your point about imagine if this happened to a level 48 new player is irrelevant when considering we're talking about a df option