It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Krotoan]

robbing someone of their individuality, forcing them to wear a helmet, or curating the world to your own selfish, petty desires is morally wrong and the height of bigotry and intolerance...

While you see it this way, generally this is not what the people asking for the feature perceive it as. Many discussions have been had but I need to ask you , what exactly is the problem? The fact that you know someone isn't seeing your character EXACTLY as you wish? The fact they'd have a choice to not see things they might find disagreeable? The idea your character might appear in something you didn't choose? There are solutions for lots of these problems that would make both sides happy.

1.) Too costly and would require too much time to develop a system to instantaneously hide a person's glamour, place a helmet on their head and adjust it for you client side; as all of this is sent to the server and they've already said they can't do anything extra to character appearance because the data is too bloated as is.

Considering the fact they won't separate horns from the faces of Au Ra among other things—it's just not going to happen because those things are minuscule compared to what is being asked for here.

Generally the way a game client gets data for your appearance is flags are sent from the server to the client. One identifier to tell your machine what it should show at whatever coordinates your player is based on your race, size and possibly a flag for what color. This option would actually REDUCE the the traffic because instead of querying the server for other players it would just take the data for class/race/gender/level and use predetermined results. Your client wouldn't care what people were actually wearing (or in some cases chose for appearance options) it would just use the settings defaults.

It's possible with the weird mystery that is FFXIVs legacy of development that this isn't the case but in SoP your argument doesn't particularly hold water. Adding a new option to character appearances is an entirely different matter. You're ADDING an entirely new data flag stream into the mix which is possibly different for thousands upon thousands of characters. You're also adding a variable that all the gear has to look OK in/on/over so that quality control needs to be involved.

2.) Mogstation exists, it is a cash shop, it sells non-restricted, freely glamourable items that appear and can be used in game.

I hate to break it to people (I actually don't), but the best form of advertising for a cash shop of any kind is for your players to purchase said items and to wear them. Giving you this option would remove one of Square Enix's main avenues of marketing and advertising Mogstation cosmetics to you and for that reason alone this will never happen.
.

Yes mogstation exists for people to buy items they like the look of. Liking the look of something for MANY people is because they like how it looks on their characters and want to see it when they play the game. This would not affect this at all.
They may lose some visbility but everyone will not have the option enabled and in game "ohh hey lookit that" advertisement will still happen. Your perspective is again skewed in an "all or nothing" manner.

Not to mention the amount websites, opinion pieces and bad press the game would get for including a button that would quite literally be called a "bigotry" button in news articles related to it. It's not a good idea from a development or financial angle nor would it give them any positive publicity as a result.

Again you assume ALL news outlets view it as you do and as we see even within this thread the perspective on it is wide and varied. Some people still see it as just an option and the percent of people even in this thread viewing it as "bigoted" is small. Sure some more liberal perspectives might take your stance, but there are all kinds on the net, it will likely not be quite as widely one side polarized as you think.

People need to stop asking, lighten up and just enjoy the game as it is, not as it could be or as you perceive it should be. They have their vision for the game, everything fits into that and if it didn't, we wouldn't get it. It would do people well to learn to respect that.

[/QUOTE]

So stop asking for things we might want ? Sit down shut up and take what we're given?

[Granyala]

what exactly is the problem? The fact that you know someone isn't seeing your character EXACTLY as you wish? The fact they'd have a choice to not see things they might find disagreeable? The idea your character might appear in something you didn't choose? There are solutions for lots of these problems that would make both sides happy.

No, there aren't. It's a binary situation. Either you have the freedom and control or you don't.

My cat never wears revealing outfits, so I would glamor stuff like the Shisui gear. With your "option" half the playerbase would see her in pretty darn skimpy gear and there is no way around that, except for me to be aware of it, passing on the stat upgrade and not wear it.

I think we can both agree that would be a dumb solution.

Personally, I find it idiotic that after 6 years of freedom, people are suddenly clamoring for more restrictions.

Technically you could make a list of some of the more "offending" items and only have your option apply to them but
a) that would only lead to endless debates why item X is filtered and item Y is not
b) it's way too much DEV effort that is better spent on the actual game and not appeasing a puritan, narrow minded minority

[Krotoan]

No, there aren't. It's a binary situation. Either you have the freedom and control or you don't.

There are degrees of both. The idea that neither side would have to compromise AT ALL is silly, however there are levels of each that are acceptable.

My cat never wears revealing outfits, so I would glamor stuff like the Shisui gear. With your "option" half the playerbase would see her in pretty darn skimpy gear and there is no way around that, except for me to be aware of it, passing on the stat upgrade and not wear it.
I think we can both agree that would be a dumb solution.

If you'd read the thread, and I get that its a LOT to read, you'd know there are options I've proposed myself that circumvent that such as defaulting to AF gear appropriate for the level or having a standardized generic set for each job that meets a certain "decency" standard" OR replacing your character entirely so it wouldn't be you wearing whatever outfit.
This is why paying attention to the whole discussion is important, your problem has already been addressed.

Personally, I find it idiotic that after 6 years of freedom, people are suddenly clamoring for more restrictions.

You see it as restrictions when players not using the option would have NO limitations on their gameplay or visuals. It is an option for a client side change that nobody but the user would see.

Technically you could make a list of some of the more "offending" items and only have your option apply to them but
a) that would only lead to endless debates why item X is filtered and item Y is not
b) it's way too much DEV effort that is better spent on the actual game and not appeasing a puritan, narrow minded minority

And technically you could use some of the other options we've proposed and not have to bother with that kind of checklist.

You assume people don't want to see something because it "offends" them on some moral level. For a lot of us we just think it's ugly or undesireable. While we should never TELL someone what we think of them negatively without them specifically asking for it, people are welcome to have personal tastes.

[Granyala]

there are options I've proposed myself that circumvent that such as
-defaulting to AF gear appropriate for the level
-having a standardized generic set for each job that meets a certain "decency" standard"
-replacing your character entirely so it wouldn't be you wearing whatever outfit.

All of the above directly undermines the whole point of character customization.
Replacing my character entirely? What the hell are you smoking... must be good, I want some too.

You see it as restrictions when players not using the option would have NO limitations on their gameplay or visuals. It is an option for a client side change that nobody but the user would see.

It's a restiction in the sense that I lose control over how my character is displayed, yes. Doesn't matter whether I see it or not. I don't dress Ifalna a certain way because >I< want to see her that way, I also do it, so OTHERS see her the same way. It's a 50/50 split, I would say. YMMV.

You assume people don't want to see something because it "offends" them on some moral level. For a lot of us we just think it's ugly or undesireable. While we should never TELL someone what we think of them negatively without them specifically asking for it, people are welcome to have personal tastes.

Eh not just morally, no. As I already stated: I too find bikini tanks immersion breaking and nonsensical. Still I would not ask for a filter function because, to be frank: it is not my place to ask such a thing. Many people clearly enjoy the freedom and they should continue to do so. After all: it's just a game.

Now about that filter for ugly real life "outfits" ....

[Krotoan]

All of the above directly undermines the whole point of character customization.
Replacing my character entirely? What the hell are you smoking... must be good, I want some too.

Does it? The whole point of character creation for me in any game is so I like how the character(s) look. It's nice when someone else sees those character and gives a compliment but I really couldn't care less what other people are seeing on their screen. What matters to me is if I like how it looks.

There was a poster who's biggest problem was that THEIR customized character was being misrepresented and if it could be replaced with a placeholder, something that could never be said to be their character, they wouldn't care if someone had that option. Different problems different solutions.
The only thing I'm "on" right now is empathy and problem solving. Trying to see the problem from the perspective of it's opponents and solving for their concerns.

It's a restiction in the sense that I lose control over how my character is displayed, yes. Doesn't matter whether I see it or not. I don't dress Ifalna a certain way because >I< want to see her that way, I also do it, so OTHERS see her the same way. It's a 50/50 split, I would say. YMMV.

If your demand is that you have control over MY visuals on my computer then I have a problem. I don't play this game so that I'm at the mercy of everyone else who wishes to play when it comes to the environment. Sure since it's multiplayer I have to deal with differing playstyles and values when it comes to actual game mechanics like dungeons and marketboard prices, but I should not have to tolerate someone plastering their character in something obtuse or displeasing when the properties of a virtual world allow for concessions to be made.

So we come to the crux of your problem, you cannot stand even the idea that somewhere, someone MIGHT not be seeing your personal choice of glamours.
Why? If someone does not wish to see your particular choice of digital representation and were they allowed to criticize you without censor would immediately start spouting negatives, why must you still be on their screen? There is no physical law to be followed, this is a digital space and can make the impossible possible: They'll see what they want (or not see you at all) and you see what you want. They aren't causing ANY detriment to your experience except the THOUGHT of maybe not everyone in the world has to see what you've done.

WHY do you care that someone who doesn't want to see you, HAS to see you?

Eh not just morally, no. As I already stated: I too find bikini tanks immersion breaking and nonsensical. Still I would not ask for a filter function because, to be frank: it is not my place to ask such a thing. Many people clearly enjoy the freedom and they should continue to do so. After all: it's just a game.

Now about that filter for ugly real life "outfits" ....

It is always your place to expect or ask of a video game or virtual experience you are paying for and doing for the purpose of entertainment to allow for the best personal experience possible. It IS just a game and people saying that a request to customize that game experience with no noticeable effect to other players is literal bigotry is nonsensical. Nobody is calling any significant part of your actual life a bad choice or that you cannot do or be anything you want as a REAL person. At worst they are saying they do not wish to invite your personal entertainment choices into their homes.


and while your last line is a joke, it's the entire point of most of my arguments that trying to parallel or compare any part of this request to a real life counterpart is a non-sequitur. Real life has it's own rules and laws, natural and otherwise that affect the way we deal with others and ourselves. Carrying those same expectations into virtual space doesn't follow.

[Granyala]

Does it? The whole point of character creation for me in any game is so I like how the character(s) look.

Imagine the Dude in a meme picture:

That's like... YOUR opinion, man!

As you can clearly see: these differ and for me, what Ifalna wears when she is out and about is as much about how she is perceived by others as by me. No fake empathy will make any kind of censorship compatible with what I want, currently have and do not want to let go.

If your demand is that you have control over MY visuals on my computer then I have a problem.

You are free to glamor your char as you wish. I do not have control over how stuff is displayed on your client, not do I want such a thing. I merely want everyone to see the same thing, as it should be.

So we come to the crux of your problem, you cannot stand even the idea that somewhere, someone MIGHT not be seeing your personal choice of glamours.
Why?

Because it is still an RPG. How I dress Ifalna does not only reflect what I find pretty, it also reflects her character, her likes and dislikes, mirrors some of the behavior I attribute to her. Someone arbitrarily seeing her differently or not at all undermines all that.

I do not expect you to understand, most people don't roleplay in this game.

It is always your place to expect or ask of a video game or virtual experience you are paying for and doing for the purpose of entertainment to allow for the best personal experience possible.

Until it infringes onto the experience of others, as proven by this very thread.
It IS a multiplayer game and no fancy reasoning will eliminate social dynamics and expectations. In that regard, the game is quite similar to our real lives.

[Krotoan]

As you can clearly see: these differ and for me, what Ifalna wears when she is out and about is as much about how she is perceived by others as by me. No fake empathy will make any kind of censorship compatible with what I want, currently have and do not want to let go.

Then clearly I will stop trying to convince you as you are not willing to discuss, as is your right as a person.

You are free to glamor your char as you wish. I do not have control over how stuff is displayed on your client, not do I want such a thing. I merely want everyone to see the same thing, as it should be.

You want to enforce what you consider "normal" which is the guarantee that where you put your character and what you put ON your character are guaranteed to be at least represented on others screens. This is not a particularly solid rule in every MMORPG, many have instances you can run away to or allow modding. "as it should be" being your own personal value.

Because it is still an RPG. How I dress Ifalna does not only reflect what I find pretty, it also reflects her character, her likes and dislikes, mirrors some of the behavior I attribute to her. Someone arbitrarily seeing her differently or not at all undermines all that.

I do not expect you to understand, most people don't roleplay in this game.

Does it? You can control the physical representation but you cannot control what people think when they see it. No matter how carefully you craft, everyones actual perception is out of your control. Thus why does it matter if someone removes you from their experience if all you represent to them is an annoyance? You shouldn't force people to be a part of your story.

I do roleplay, quite a bit and walking by someone in patchwork insanity is difficult to reconcile in my particular narrative. One of the main reasons I would like this feature realized.

Until it infringes onto the experience of others, as proven by this very thread.
It IS a multiplayer game and no fancy reasoning will eliminate social dynamics and expectations. In that regard, the game is quite similar to our real lives.

The only "experience" it's infringing upon that I cannot seem to find a solution for is that people cannot seem to stand the fact that someone else might not HAVE to see them.
Social expectations based on real world rules are ridiculous when considered within the framework of a video game. We already have systems in place to outright silence people if they annoy us or remove them from our presence if they don't particularly satisfy us in an instance with next to no questions asked.

Well. Since this is a thing. Let’s point out the obvious.

Game code and server load are actual things. This system wouldn’t just be client side it would be server side as well because the game has to know what to render for each player. Making it a server issue.
So lets go with about 1.1 million active subs. That’s 1.1 million decisions in a game, that effects tons of other decisions the game code has to make and transmit data from server to client and client to server.

The server currently sends the positional data, job, race/gender/customization, and glamour data to your client for it to render along with skills being used if in battle. This is all done with simple number values that are then processed and rendered by the clients computer. If you were to say tell the client to ignore the glamour data and show a default skin or gear or character, it wouldn't increase server traffic one bit.

I'm not going to pretend I know this for certain. I am not on the dev team nor am I privy to the actual game code, but this is how most game clients work. Server sends data points, your client processes those into graphical representations and sends back control inputs.

Given that I like my current connection and load times, i pay for the game as it is not how i want it to be. Do I have desires and everything else that I wish would happen? Absolutely. Id like mch not to be so ping reliant. Id like instance based housing, id like roulettes with more than 2 dungeons, etc etc etc.. but just because i pay my sub does not give me the right to demand these things.

Demand being a strong word.. request is more like. You have every right to ASK for things you'd like to see, just not to expect them to be implemented. I don't think I've seen one person supporting this option DEMANDING that it be put in. But hey, it's 140 pages, maybe I missed one.

I made an agreement as did all of you to pay for this game for what it offers not what you can demand from it. If you dont like it. Guess what you have the option to stop playing.

And yes you are free to express opinions and make suggestions but this “suggestion” just from a technical standpoint is ludicrous and pointless. Dont like someone’s glam. Dont pay attention to it. Ffs, between this and the ryne sexualization crap im starting to think yall need a break from the net.

Your technical points don't particularly hold water and the "deal with things the way they are or leave" argument is never helpful.

[rachcouture]

Again we have this request for a punishment to be added to using a feature. Weird.

You are, in essence, punishing other players by denying them to be presented how they wish to be on your screen. Why is it only acceptable when it comes from you?

No. Only the user. Everyone else will be able to see what they usually see.

No. You're denying everyone you encounter. Please read it again.

How is someone NOT seeing something THEY don't want to see removing player agency?

It's like all you've done in this entire thread is argue for the sake over things you already know the answer to, but willingly feign ignorance over. This is no exception.

Disabling the glamours of all other players denies their in-game right to visually express themselves. It doesn't matter if it's only you that sees this change; you've dehumanized them and shoved them under the rug. Even in an online context it's a morally abhorrent position to take.

Yes, people in the real world play the game together. Sure. But the entire rest of the rules and physical laws governing and allowing interaction are mutable unlike real life.

Social interaction is ever evolving in real life, as well, but that still doesn't allow you to dictate the expression of another human being so long as it doesn't harm another person.

This could be said right back at you. The whole argument acknowledges this and presents a solution.

Hardly, considering unlike you and your compatriots, I'm more than capable of tolerating diversity. I mean I'm tolerating you, even though I think your worldview is incredibly toxic and regressive.

Your idea of a 'solution' is the digital equivalent of Don't Ask Don't Tell, the misguided notion that a lack of visibility somehow makes it all go away. Spoiler: it doesn't.

But in an online game the laws of our universe need not apply.

Good lord... an online game exists in the real world. It's populated by living, breathing beings from a plethora of backgrounds, paying the exact same subscription fee as you on a publicly accessible server. They are human, and so long as they are not breaking the ToS, no one gets to dictate when and how they express themselves.

Quit perpetuating these same fallacies ad nauseam. It's not a good look. None of what you're saying is.

[Joven]

In the end it is just a discussion and for the most part people are being civil, however implausible the suggestion is if people are enaging with one another in a civil matter why does that bother you so much? As you said this idea probably will never happen so a discussion on a theoretical idea should really have no impact on you. Granted tone can be missed via text, just seems that you are irritated by this discussion for no real reason.

It's just the way people "argue" these days: "I don't like this so I make the claim that this topic is pointless and not worth the time to discuss".

[Theodric]

I'm just glad that the posters against the idea do an excellent job at keeping the thread at the top of the page and ensure that more people see it and leave a like on the original post.

On that note, as of the time of this post there's 101 likes!