I wish FF14 had a world chat

[MomomiMomi]

It makes no sense that returners get an automatic invite to the NN, but brand spanking new players do not. That is some truly odd logic.

It's because of RMT bots.

[Packetdancer]

It's because of RMT bots.

Specifically, if newbies were auto-joined, the RMT spammers would just make spambots and start spamming the NN instead of just spamming the local area around the aetheryte in hub cities. Returners are (presumably) real players who have previously paid and all, so you have reasonably solid evidence they’re not bots and thus safe to join to the NN.

Sadly, any really reliable method for preventing RMT bots from spamming the NN would require some form of human oversight and intervention to make sure they weren’t just a bot. Such as making the network invite-only.

[Snowdove]

Such as making the network invite-only.

The problem is, that keeps a lot of people out who need it.


Are RMT bots so bad that we want to hinder new people?

[MomomiMomi]

Are RMT bots so bad that we want to hinder new people?

Yes. Also, I don't know about your world, but on Behemoth our mentors regularly invite novices.

[Snowdove]

Yes. Also, I don't know about your world, but on Behemoth our mentors regularly invite novices.

Never once has a Mentor reached out to me.

[Packetdancer]

Never once has a Mentor reached out to me.

This is an illustration of why I think the existing system's terrible (even if the alternative might be worse); I have little doubt there are helpful mentors on your server, but unless you bump into them, how do they know to reach out in the first place? If you bump into someone in a dungeon and they offer help and strike up a conversation, that's easy. But how does a mentor know that this particular sprout out of the 20 around the aetheryte needs help? Just /tell'ing doesn't seem great either; I know if I were a sprout and every time I was around an aetheryte I got three different mentors /tell'ing me "Hey, do you need any help?" Sure, they'd probably have the best of intentions, but I'd probably quickly figure out how to remove that sprout icon. But if it wouldn't be ideal for mentors to just spam the sprouts, how does a sprout seek out help on their own initiative? Even assuming they know to find a mentor in the first place, they may not know how to use search tools to do so. And even if they do that, supposedly not all mentors are receptive to such requests (based on the "Mentor system is broken!" type threads).

What might work better, now that I'm poking at my brain to see if ideas fall out, would be to make the Newbie Network work more like FC applications? It's possible for someone to apply to an FC without having to talk to someone, and FC officers can look at pending applications to approve/deny them. Make it so a sprout has the option to say "I want to join the Newbie Network" and then mentors could look at a list of applications (and filter by who's online right then). That way they could reach out via /tell to make sure it's a real player and not a bot, and just approve the application. Or (if the player status system were made less opaque and more discoverable) a "Looking for Help/Advice" status icon a sprout—or even an advanced player—could set on themselves, and then a mentor (or even just another experienced player) could reach out to them upon seeing that.

Beyond that, I'm sorry you've had trouble making ties in game; you're right it's easier to stick around when you do. I bailed on the game ages ago around Heavensward, and made a very very brief attempt to return around Stormblood (and never even finished my trek into Heavensward). This time when I came back, I found a great FC and got looped into things, and now it seems to have stuck; the fact that I have people to do things with—or even just to chat with on the FC channel while doing my own thing—made me feel more like I had an in-game community or family, and that made all the difference. So I do absolutely understand where you're coming from.

If we were in the same datacenter I'd be happy to help in reaching out (and helping find other contacts to talk to), but unfortunately I'm on Primal and you're over on Crystal. Maybe some others in the thread here who are on servers in the Crystal data center can help reach out to you and help you make connections. I hope you have better luck this time around than you have previously.

[Snowdove]

What might work better, now that I'm poking at my brain to see if ideas fall out, would be to make the Newbie Network work more like FC applications? It's possible for someone to apply to an FC without having to talk to someone,

You can do that? I didn't know that! How do you do that?


Maybe I can ask someone. Oh wait, no world chat...

[Vaer]

The problem is, that keeps a lot of people out who need it.


Are RMT bots so bad that we want to hinder new people?

You can use Player Search to find every mentor on the server with the filter. Mentors can also use the New Adventurer filter to find them to invite. /shrug Just gotta take that first step to ask if you want in. The chat channel is persistent, so once you get in you don't need to find a mentor every time you login or need help (all of the ones that participate are in the channel, and when you ask a question all of them see it) unless you somehow get kicked of course or graduate.

It's obviously not perfect but it still serves to filter people that might do it for the lulz in a world chat and if needed people can kick annoyances out of the channel.

[Packetdancer]

The problem is, that keeps a lot of people out who need it.

I agree that's a huge problem; this solution isn't a good one. But...

Are RMT bots so bad that we want to hinder new people?

Unfortunately, they are that bad. The RMT spammer problem is worse on some servers than others, but even on Leviathan—which is not as bad as many, from what I hear—I can usually find 2-3 RMT bots shouting advertisements just near the aetheryte in Gridania during peak hours. If you gave them a place to reach a huge quantity of the playerbase all at once, the RMT bots would immediately start using it as well, and if the channel had even just 6 bots (conservative estimate, based on an assumption of two RMT spammer bots in each of the three starting hubs) each yelling their RMT advertisement every five minutes, the channel could rapidly become unpleasant to use. Yes, you could blacklist the bots as new ones cycled in, but it's likely a number of people would get tired of doing that and would just leave the channel (or start ignoring it). At which point the channel becomes useless... or at least, a lot less useful.

Anything you do which is an automated system to allow newbies onto the newbie network will allow the RMT bots. If you make it so you have to have run at least one dungeon... well, the RMT folks already have bots running dungeons to farm gil, so those qualify. (And also now it means the sprouts can't join the channel until their first dungeon.) If you make it so you need to get at least one commendation in the dungeons, they'll just write the bots to comm each other and then hurl them at the queue repeatedly until they're matchmade with each other. (And also now it means a sprout who's playing DPS might have to wait a long time before they can be invited.)

The invite system is basically a horrible compromise to keep the Newbie Network still functional at all.

[SamSmoot]

Are RMT bots so bad that we want to hinder new people?

For me, I immediately put my chat in battle mode when I'm in Limsa to hide the bots. (Side effect: I don't see anything other payers are saying / doing, but that's OK..)